Jerry and Lois Kaping on Sex as Sacred, Covenantal Design

Hey, listen. Like she said, my name is Jerry. This is Lois. Uh my wife, we've been married for 36 years. Yes. And uh it hasn't always been perfect. Uh but man, it's been good. Yes. So, listen. We're going to just jump right in because we don't have a lot of time. We're going to go through these points pretty quickly. We're going to ask you to kind of hold your questions till the very end. We'll get a chance to talk to you at the very end and answer all your questions. And this is a God-honoring sex life. We wanted to actually call it Let's Talk About Sex, Baby. Do you guys remember that song? So, actually, Jerry, sing it. No, I'm not going to sing it. Oh, come on. So, anyway, let's just start here. Yeah. Yeah. So, um sex, what we know is sex is not just physical. It's actually sacred. It's covenantal, and it is God designed for our for marriage. And so, when we understand this, it transforms not only our intimacy, but really our entire relationship. And so, Jerry and I

love the word of God. That's where we start. That's where we finish. That gets us through the rough spots. And so the Bible says in Hebrews 13:4, "Give honor to marriage and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral or who commit adultery." They're just adding the bonus part there of Yeah. So um there's just four points to what we're sharing with you today. So what's the first point, Jerry? Yeah. So we're going to go through the four points. Um any good pastor has a good sermon outline. And so my wife and I put together four points for you to remember. Sex is God's design. It's with purpose, boundaries, and blessing. Is that correct? That's right. Yeah. And the scriptures that support that really start at the beginning of the word of God in Genesis chapter 1. It says, "This is one of the things I love about God's word because uh marriages throughout the word of God from the very first chapter, second chapter in Genesis, first chapter all the way to

the end of Revelation, there's a connotation about a bride and a groom and a wedding feast." And a wedding feast. Yeah. A marriage is super important to God. It's his design for the church and so he set up it he set up marriage in our lives to reflect that and um you know some things have happened in the world that kind of mess with that. So back to scripture Genesis 1:27 and 28. So God created human beings in his own image in the image of God he created them male and female he created them. Then God blessed them and said be fruitful and multiply. I like that. I know you do. There's no wrong there's no wrong words there. Fill the earth and govern it. reign over the fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, and all the animals that scurry along the ground. And then on in Genesis 2:24, it says, "This explains why a man leaves his father and mother is joined to his wife, and the two are united into one." Now, the man and his wife were both naked, but they felt no shame.

I love that. I love that image. The man and wife were both naked and felt no shame. So so much of our culture tells us to be ashamed and afraid of standing in front of our wives both physically naked but also exposing ourself to our spouse. And I mean intimately talking about things that you wouldn't talk about to anyone else. The man and woman were in the garden. It was perfect. There was no shame. Yeah. That was before sin entered the world, right? Yeah. Correct. Yeah. So, there's four things that we want to talk about inside of this to kind of just help us understand how God created this whole thing. God created gender, a man and a woman. That's who he created. And he created marriage and he actually even created the sexual union and not just for procreation, right? It's for procreation and

pleasure. If you look at our anatomy, our bodies are built for pleasure as well. That pleasure is being um meant to be inside the marriage covenant. That's where the blessing is. Yeah. And before sin entered the world, as Lois said, sex existed. It's part of perfection, right? Like when we go back to the garden, right? We go back to the very first days of Adam and Eve. It was perfect. It was perfect and they were naked and they were not ashamed. Yeah. Yeah. So, I can get really going on this, but let's keep moving on. Um, so sex is not man-made. It's God designed. Wait, wait, wait. Man didn't take it up. Nope. as as uh really TV, movies, music says it's man's idea, but really it's God's idea. And so

um if it's God's idea, there's um it's really tied to some incredible things. It's tied to creation, which we already talked about. It's tied to life. So procreation, it's tied to joy and blessing. Yeah. There's a right way of doing everything. That's why we live in Christ's righteousness. And so there's a right way of doing sex and there's a wrong way of doing sex. And God designed it to be perfect and intimate between man and woman. Right. And if God designed it, then it has these things. It has purpose. It does have boundaries. And it has uh blessing through the obedient way of following God's way. Yeah. That's right. And we don't define it. God God defines sex. Yeah. And so when we align with his design, we experience his blessing. So um the very next thing we want to talk about is sex is a covenant. It's not convenience. We in the world today,

we look at sex as convenient, meaning one night stands, friends with benefits. We have all these terms that talk about the convenience of sexuality, but that was not God's design at all. Yeah. So, uh, the scriptures that support that, um, back to Hebrews 13:4, give honor to the marriage, remain faithful to one another. And then in 1 Corinthians 6:18, it says, "Run from sexual sin. No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. Sexual immorality is a sin against your own body." And then in Malachi, you cry out, "Why doesn't the Lord accept my worship?" I'll tell you why. Because the Lord witnessed the vows you and your wife made when you were young, but you've been unfaithful to her, though she remained your faithful partner, the wife of your med marriage vows. So, the Bible draws some clear lines. What are those lines, Jerry? Yeah. The reality is this, like uh the truth of the matter is this. If I have any sin in my life and I try to worship God, it there's a barrier there, right?

Right. And and and in your marriage, it's the same way. like if I've been unfaithful or I've uh dove into pornography or anything like that, what happens is there's a barrier between me, me and you, right? There's a break. And so God didn't have that plan. And that's why Malachi is so uh clear when it points it out. Man, I I want to read something. We've been studying some books and and by the way, you two are the are you guys are the brave ones in our church. All the other people that watch you later. Yeah, you chickenened out. I know. But we're glad you're watching now because there's still truth. The word of God does not return void and so you can gain from it. Come on now. Post right. Postconference experience. So I'm going to read out of a book and I know this guy's a little controversial and I'll tell you why in a minute, but his name is Mark Driscoll. Him and his

wife Grace, they wrote this book together. And after I read this book, I realized some things about Mark that, you know, if you know anything about Mark, he had some troubles at Mars Hill up in Seattle area and he left ministry for quite some time. What we didn't know about Mark was what was going on in his marriage during that time. And he's very clear about why he was at the place he was and how he repented and all those things. So, it's really good. But I want to read this about the difference between covenant and a contract. So, here's what it says. Understand a contract. Man, it's hard to read in here. Here, baby. Oh, these are awesome. Understand contract versus covenant is essential to marriage. In a contractual marriage, two

people who uh with two lives negotiate the terms of their marriage. That sounds terrible. It does. This tends to make up marriage more like a business deal with two individuals living parallel lives monitoring each other's contributions to see if the terms of the marriage negotiation are being upheld. That you want to have a great marriage, you treat your marriage like that. Like, hey, you're not holding up to your end of the bargain, right? Marriage isn't like, you know, people say 5050, right? You put your 50, I put my 50, that's 100. But really, as with all things with the Lord, with our whole heart, so it's 100 100, right? I'm going to have to wear these. This is unbelievable. I can't read this right now. The difference of uh a contract and a covenant. A covenant is not like a

contract. This is important for men to understand because most men, especially professionals who wouldn't wear these glasses, think contractually, which is uh for business really great, but for marriage, it's death. Yeah. The concept of covenant appears literally hundreds of times throughout the Bible. The concept of covenant is referred to in various terms throughout the Bible, but the main one is, read this for me. Hed. Hed. I I have a hard time with that word. Hed means this. It often translate this as covenant love, loving kindness, mercy, steadfast love. Sounds like the fruit of the spirit. It does. Loyal love, devotion, commitment, loyalty, or reliability. And perhaps, watch this. The Jesus story book bible

for children. Children says it best. Says it the very best. It describes covenant love is this. Never stopping, never giving up. Unbreakable always and forever love. And I and listen, I love the way that they line this out. This book is not only about sex. It's about marriage. It's about my responsibility as a man, your responsibility as a woman. It's about so many things other than sex. But they don't mix words. They they do not they talk about it all and and they're very real about it for sure. That's good. So So then from what we're read from the Bible, sex inside of a covenant relationship of marriage, one man, one woman married, it equals blessing. Yeah. But then sex outside of that covenant is brokenness, which you kind of hit on.

Um and that covenant is based really on a commitment before God. And for us, 300 of our closest friends and family. Yeah. Which really, um, you know, that first three years of marriage was tough. pretty tough. Yeah. And we in some ways we we probably looked at our marriage more contractually than covenant. Even though we made a covenant in front of our 300 closest friends and God himself, we kind of treated it as like what am I getting out of this and what you how are you performing in the marriage and that two becoming one was a little uh Yeah. I just thought the one was me. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. So um that that uh one flesh that the Bible talks about it's it is really more than physical. It's it's spiritual, it's emotional, and it's relational unity. Um, so this next slide, I am so excited about this because this totally lines up with what we're studying at journey.

Um, cuz our theme for the whole year is kingdom come. Kingdom come. And so we do not see kingdom any more clear than we see it in the marriage. God set up marriage and then throughout the whole Bible talks about marriage as we mentioned. And so what I came to realize in us preparing to um share about you know sex inside a marriage, a godly view of sex, um I realized how much it is actually what's happening around us in the world with all the things that you can think of. Um pornography, adultery, fornication, um you know, incest, rape, all those things. That's the work of the enemy to destroy God's perfect plan. To destroy God's beauty. And so really it's spiritual warfare that we are um we are engaging in when we say I am going

to be faithful to you, you're going to be faithful to me and it's just us alone. And so the culture says, what's the culture say? Yeah, the c culture says you could have casual sex like I mentioned uh friends with benefits, one night stands, you you find a lot of couples that met each other in a bar and they had casual sex that night. That's the culture and it says it's okay and get what you can get and don't throw a fit. Right. Right. And the kingdom says, "No, this is a covenant. This is an agreement between two to become one." And so, I'm only going to hold that space for my spouse and no one else. In the culture, Go ahead. Yeah. The culture says, "This is temporary. If if this doesn't work out, we can I can have plan, next one, or B or C or D or E." And you know, that was probably the kindness of the Lord when we were first dating. We both came from broken homes.

And so we said right off the getgo, divorce is not an option for us. It will be literally till death do us part, even if one of us has to kill the other. Yeah. Lit. [laughter] Literally this uh you know um when Montel and Kristen were talking about the the lightsaber on the table. You weren't here. You had to go with our daughter-in-law. But he they were talking about how there that was an option. There's always an option to pick up the lightsaber. And we agreed on our very first date. I know it scared you a little bit, didn't it? Oh yeah, I ran to the hill. He ghosted me. Yeah. Our very first date, we we decided we talked about this that if we ever get married, when we get married, we weren't even talking about us. We were just saying whenever I get married someday, we would never even talk about divorce. We wouldn't use that word in our home.

We wouldn't use the word separate. We wouldn't use any of those words. And we wouldn't even use it in a joking manner because because this is a permanent situation. It is. It is. That's what the kingdom says. Permanent. Yeah. Kingdom Kingdom says it's a permanent situation. to death do us part. For better or worse, richer or poor, to death do us part. Sickness and in health. Sickness. And we've faced all of those. Yeah. Um the culture says it's self-focused. It's all about what I can get out of the intimacy with my spouse. Where the kingdom says it's actually spouse focused, right? Which totally lines up with Jesus teaching. He didn't come to ser to to be served but to serve. And so it really lines up. It doesn't. You could outdo each other in the bedroom, right? like I could serve you more than you can serve me. Right. Right.

Um try to outdo each other with brotherly love. That's what the word of God says. Right. Right. Um culture says emotional. Man, our society is all about emotions. It's all about emotions. How you feel about it, what you're feeling. One thing I've learned about my emotions, they lie to me. Yeah. Honestly, you know, if I if I'm hungry or tired, I can go sideways pretty quick. So, you might need a Snickers bar. Emotions I might need a Snickers. Yeah. Um, emotions are there for a reason. God gave us emotions just like he gave us a sex inside a marriage, but they're more of like a check engine light. They're not supposed They're not supposed to be driving the car, right? Correct. So, like what's my emotions are out of control? What's going on? Oh, I need to eat. But, uh, kingdom, what's kingdom? Kingdom is about promise, right? Kingdom is about I promise and I'm not going to break. The Lord will never leave us nor forsake us. And when you had that promise 3 years into our

marriage, I thought you thought probably I was going to take off. I wasn't I wasn't in. We were on shaky ground, right? We were on shaky ground. So I actually um got my wife off for 3 or 4 days. She didn't know it. I went out and bought a anniversary van. I took her on a vacation that she didn't know was coming. And from that moment on, you knew I was in. I wasn't going to like We were on the verge of out. Yeah. Well, we' already promised that we weren't going to speak about it. [laughter] We're not going to talk about we'll just stuff it inside. Yeah. Yeah. So, um really God didn't restrict sex within the confines of marriage to limit us. Yeah. He placed it in covenant to protect us. Like my old buddy Donnie Moore used to say, God didn't come to take away your fun. He came to take away your pain. Right. And like I think about that uh that story of um that illustration of like if my if our children when they were little came and said, "Mommy, I

want to play on the freeway." I would say, "No, child, you cannot play on the freeway." And it's not because I want to ruin their fun, right? That would cause irreparable damage. Yeah. Super massive amount of pain to them as they got ran over by a car, but also to us as well, right? And so that's we have to keep in mind God's not coming to take away our fun, but to take away our pain and not to limit us, but to you know, so the third point we want to make today is sex creates one flesh, unity, body, soul, and spirit. It's so much more than just the physical act. Yeah. And it goes back to that same verse in Genesis 2. So this explains why a man leaves his father and mother is joined to his wife and the two are united into one. Now the man and his wife are both naked and they felt no shame. And so this unity is it's several things. It's a spiritual

bonding and and that's probably been the glue that's that's been brought us through everything. Brought us through everything. Yeah. Because you know um we start out as separate people. The Lord you know we're both growing towards the Lord. And so as we're growing towards the Lord separately, we're also growing towards closer to each other. that distance between each of us. So, it's a spiritual bonding. What else is it? It's an emotional connection. It's um there's not there's not many things you can do in life where only one other person can enjoy that space. And right inside your bedroom is the only place really that you and I are allowed in there. And so, this emotional connection, there's a there's a the two becoming one over and over again, right, as we continue to grow in our intimate relationship. Yeah. And that establishes our identity as the two becoming one.

That's an identity level oneness. Like you can't separate us. Um nothing can. Yeah. Or from the love of God. So uh this next part sex you cannot se separate sex from the soul because it creates a bond that be goes beyond the body. What do you remember? Do you remember when we were youth pastors and we did when I would preach to the youth? I would preach to the youth and we'd have all these colored papers. They'd be like blue and pink and green and brown and yellow. And I began just to glue them together and stick them together. Stick them together as I'm talking. And at the end of it, I just set it aside and let it dry. At the very end of that talk, that talk was about sexual relationship with people around you. And what happens is if we have sex with a whole bunch of different people, it's like those pieces

of paper being glued together. At some point, if you're not married to that person or sometimes even in marriage, you rip that sucker apart. And when you rip it apart, a piece of you goes with them and a piece of them is left with you. And so, as we rip those pages apart, you would have pink on green and yellow on blue. Yeah. Yeah. Uh but if you have a healthy intimacy, it really strengthens your unity. So instead of it being shreds of this and that, if you're having a healthy sex relationship inside your marriage, it just strengthens your unity. But if there isn't unity, if there's a distance in the bedroom, if there's not or if we're not connecting on that level, what what could that symbolize? I'm not I'm not tracking with you. Oh, it often re reveals a deeper relationship. Oh, the deeper problem, right? Yeah. There's something bigger going on.

You don't want to be intimate with me or I don't want to be intimate with you. That what what are some examples? Well, I'll tell you what, like I know for me, like if there's no pursuing of me, it makes me feel like I'm not loved, I'm not seen, I'm not and so there's a space that happens. And same way if I'm not uh pursuing you, you might say, well, what happened? Did I, you know, did I do something wrong or Yeah. And then also, I was thinking along the lines of if there's not intimacy in the bedroom, maybe there's something else going on. Maybe there's um we're not communicating well. We're not on the same page of with raising our kids. we're not on the same page with the in-laws. I mean, there's just so many things that it's showing up in the bedroom because we haven't talked about it the issue beyond that. And that's a gap that I'll tell you the enemy takes the most advantage of.

When we separate ourselves intimately, what happens is it's exactly his plan, right? Uh as as Montel said, the enemy comes to kill, steal, and destroy, right? The first place he attacks is your marriage. If he can divide your marriage up, if he can destroy your family, if he can kill the passion you once had, he wins, right? And so it's way beyond just body and and and and soul and spirit. It's it's like all of them culminating into one that he cannot break into if you don't let him. Right. Yeah. So, uh the fourth point is sex is mutual, pure, and it reflects Christ. And this is one of Jerry's favorite verses. Uh 1 Corinthians 7 3-5.

The husband should fulfill his wife's sexual needs. Come on. Amen. And the wife should fulfill her husband's needs. And say that again. Come on. Amen. The wife gives authority over her body to her husband and the husband gives authority over his body to his wife. Do not deprive each other of sexual relations unless There's a caveat, Jerry. Yeah. Read it. Unless you both agree to refrain from sexual immacy for a limited time. I like that word limited. Yes. So you can give yourselves over complete more completely to prayer. Yeah. But then wait afterward you should come together again so that Satan won't be able to tempt you because of your lack of self-control. Yeah. Here's the thing. I I've fasted without food for over 30 days. We've fasted together seven or 10 days without food. [clears throat] Yeah. I don't think in 36 years we've ever fasted for this because of prayer.

No, we haven't ever said we're not going to be intimate so that we can pray. We we've never done that. And then maybe when you're maybe if your marriage gets to the brink of disaster, you when you might get there, but remember these words for a limited time. I would put the word very limited time. Oh, you're adding to the word. Yeah, of course. [laughter] Because what's going to happen is your mind's going to begin to wander. You're going to start to think about someone else or something else and it's just not a very healthy place. And then I love these verses in Ephesians chapter 5. It um it reinforces those Genesis verses that I read, but then Paul adds a little bit. It says, "As the scriptures say, a man leaves his father and mother and is joined to his wife, and the two unite as one." This is a great mystery, but it is an illustration of the way Christ and the church are one. So, that's what I'm saying about this being um kingdom, a kingdom concept. It's all throughout scripture. So, it yes, it's about

marriage. Yes, it's about intimacy because it reflects God's intimate love for us. And don't let anyone else come into that because the two are one and they separate from their mom and dad. Don't let your friends, don't let your relatives come into your relationship with your spouse. You should not be having those conversations. You should be having them here before you ever have them out some somewhere else. Right. So, um, tell me what sex is. Sex is mutual. It is uh a both end. It's a giving and serving and honoring. It's not about me. It's about us. It's right. That's what it is. And then it's not what it's not is it's not a weapon, a bargaining tool. It's not manipulated. Tell me about that. Well, yeah. So, it's been many years ago. We had some pretty pretty close friends. Um, you guys used to go hunting together across the whole world. We

Yeah, you hunted all over the place and um his wife made it pretty brutal. You guys worked together at the time. His wife made it pretty brutal leading up to going hunting. Maybe two weeks before. Yeah. For 2 weeks. His life was a wreck. And what was that? What What did you see of that? Was it like It was every It was everything. It was in the bedroom. It was everywhere. Uh it was like he was he couldn't do anything right at all. Yeah. And so so in that instance, sex was being used as a manipulation or bargaining tool or whatever, right? So the reality is we can't use sex to punish or reward, right? Cuz that's not God's design, right? So God's design is that I give my body over to you and you give your body over to me. So then if I'm not getting along with you or you don't like the fact that I didn't clean the garage or I didn't take the garbage out and you

withhold sex, that is so opposite of what Christ would do, right? Christ didn't Christ did not um hold back his love for us in the midst of our sin. In fact, why we were yet the worst sinners, Christ died for us. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So um sex is a gift and it's a connection point and a place of care, but there is some things we have to do, man. And it's I think the world's always been this way, but now we have just so much information and visual stuff coming at us all the time. I think now more than ever, we have to we have to have purity to protect [music] this intimacy because we have things coming at us. I mean, in in my back pocket, I have this phone and the super computer. Yeah. My little supercomput, my phone computer. Um and I have access to anything.

Yeah. The word of God says, "Guard your heart and mind in Christ Jesus." And then it says in Corinthians um do not conform to the patterns of this world any longer but be transformed by what? Renewing your mind. So what you allow to go in your mind or into your heart will show up in your bedroom. Yeah. And we we do have to um have purity. It matters. It matters before we're married. And of course there's always grace. God offers grace. He offers restoration and healing. Um but also purity within our marriage. And then [clears throat] we do have to guard our heart and mind and we have to put up some boundaries. What are some boundaries that you and I have put up over the years? Yeah. Uh being a pastor and also being in the business world as well, I will never meet with a female by myself. And if I behind a closed door, right?

And even if I have a closed door, cuz in my office, I do have times where I have a female in my office. My door is glass so you can see in, right? If I'm meeting with a female in public, it is in public, right? it is in the middle of a restaurant, in the middle of a coffee shop. So, there could be no things that are that are considered, right? And I I think of different times when um maybe there's been some woman at work or just in our in our relation in our broader friendships where I'm like, I think she's giving you a little more attention than than I am comfortable with. And so, I just put you on notice like, hey, just be aware of this. I'd like you to, you know, be aware that this is what I'm picking up on. And I think you've done the same. Yeah. And in fact, uh, in our last pastor role when we were senior pastors, we had a gentleman in there that gave my

wife just way too much attention. And I just told her, I was just really frank and said, "Hey, that guy kind of creeps me out around you." And she's like, "Well, yeah, she could sense it." She said, "Yeah, me too." And so we said, "Hey, we're never going to allow him to ever be alone with you." Right. And then, you know, I'm pretty good at um just throwing you into any conversation. So if that man or any other man were to say something, even a the smallest compliment possible, I would usually bring you into the conversation, even if you're not there, and say, "My husband thinks the same." And he has and I might throw he has for 36 years. There you go. So there's just no there's no room. I want to keep what we have is special and it's sacred and it's just for us and so no one else gets to be in that space because that purity is the alignment with God, right? He's asking us to be aligned with him. And there's no way we can be aligned with each other if we're not aligned with him.

Amen. And why don't you read your favorite verse in Proverbs that really speaks to that? It comes out of Proverbs uh 5 verse 18 and 19. Let your wife be a fountain of blessing for you. Rejoice in the wife of your youth. She's a loving deer, a graceful dough. Watch this. Let her breast satisfy you always. May you always be captivated by her love. Specifically, one her love. Am I a graceful dope? Yeah, you we know I'm like an old buck now. I'm no longer a young buck, but yeah. Yeah. Uh you know, I we didn't even talk about this what I'm about to share. So, hello. Bonus feature. Uh I was thinking about, you know, the word of God. We built our whole life on the word of God. It does not fail. But even in the word of God, there's a whole

book of the Bible that is literally about Song of Songs or Song of Solomon, however you want to call it. Um, it is written in allegory and it's poetic. But you don't have It's about a man and a woman, a husband and a wife. You don't have to have a very active imagination to figure out what they're talking about. You're like, well, that's a little spicy. That's, you know, there's not even children in there. There's no other relatives, man, woman. That's it. Yeah. So, word of God. Yeah. So, marriage reflects Christ, right? is a picture of Christ and the church. Jesus laid himself down for his bride. And so us as married people, we must lay ourselves down for each other. Yeah. And sex inside of marriage, it does reflect faithfulness. It reflects unity and it reflects a sacrificial love. Cuz sometimes, honestly, you know,

one of us might not feel like it, but it's a sacrifice. You know, it's a sacrifice. Um, and it's a worthy one because and it's so easy like, right? Well, I had a long day or man, the kids were all over me today. I just don't want to be touched or whatever the case may be. Remember, our bodies don't belong to ourselves. I know it's a hard Bible verse if you want to be selfish. You can't be selfish and reconcile that uh Bible verse. Absolutely. Your marriage and even your intimacy is preaching a message about God to your family, to your friends, to your children. Yeah, we're never going to expose what happens in our bedroom and we both have to consent to everything that does happen in there. But when we come out of there and we're connected by soul, spirit, um, flesh, all of that, the people around us

can sense it. They can see it. Our childrens can know that we have a healthy marriage. Our family, our extended family can go, man, why do they hold hands so much? Why are they so kind to each other? Why do they say words that are going to encourage instead of discourage? and even our our friends around that. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So, um you know, just the closing thought is that a God-honoring sex life is not about restriction. That's what the world tells us. The world tells us that if you're a Christian that there's only this one way and it's very restrictive and it's no fun. Um but that's not the truth. That's a lie. Because that's what the enemy does. He comes into something that God has said this is how it is and this is the best way and this is blessing out of this. and the enemy uh twists it and perverts it and and and puts a puts a lie on top of it. And so really um it's about aligning with God's with the kingdom, the kingdom of God.

So really by uh our having a healthy sex life inside of our marriage, we are defeating the enemy. It is spiritual warfare. I I I didn't come into preparing for this um breakout thinking that. But after reading all the scripture and seeing just how marriage is all throughout the Bible and then these uh books that we, you know, got some information out of, I'm like, this is full-on spiritual warfare. And because the enemy has done such a heyday in the world in the area of sex, it's easy to see how um you know, just kind of the mess he's made of it. And so even in the inside the church, inside people that have been married Christian, been Christians a long time, we don't always get it right. what the Lord intended for good, right? For righteousness, for oneness.

The enemy has went to town on dividing it and destroying it. Hey, we got some resources for you today. Um, do we do that? Yeah, you can do that. Oh, so yeah, when we live out um this in our marriage God's way, it it strengthens our marriage. Um, it deepens our connection. It does reflect Christ. And it really just it just brings a blessing over everything. Yeah. And it, you know, there's hope for everyone. And even inside your marriage right now, if if maybe your marriage isn't good, maybe you have some infidelity, maybe someone's dealt with pornography, maybe you've had uh all kinds of trouble in the bedroom, there's hope for everyone. There is. And if we go back to Christ just like we do with our own personal sin, and we we we're honest with him and we're honest with our spouse. Here's

where I'm at. And we've had moments like that where we had to just be honest with each other where we're at. And I I promise you he's a god of restoration. He is. And um you know, you have a kind of a passion for restoration. So sometimes a a res like if you just take it in the vehicle world, a res a a classic vehicle that's been restored has more value than it did when it was new. And so I think God does that all the time. Yeah. It takes takes uh beauty from ashes. Right. Right. He takes junk and he makes it beautiful. And so he can do that in our marriage. Yeah. So maybe your your marriage is a little rusty or has some damage. God can bond it up and buff it out. Yeah. And he does a he does a good job. So a few resources that we came across uh in preparation of this is uh the book I was talking about, Real Real Marriage

by Mark and Grace uh Driscoll. It's a fantastic book. It's a book of truth. It has a lot of scripture in it and it's really uh an amazing book. So that's one. The the next book, we did not read it. We hadn't had a chance to order it. It's called uh The Gift of Sex. And it is The reason why we listed it is that every one of these books that we did read all reference that book. Yeah, I think it's like the OG. Yeah, it might be the OG. And then uh this one just had a fun title, so I couldn't resist. I like the title. Yeah. Red Hot Monogamy. And actually, she explains the It's also written by husband and wife like the Driscolls. It's Bill and Pam Frell. And um the my only disclaimer with this one is it was written about 20 years ago. So it gives

you 200 ideas to It's a great idea to have 200 different ideas. Yeah. To be romantic or, you know, intimate. And um but one of them is you should burn a CD. I don't even really remember how to burn a CD, but I remember back in our days I I I I could make you a mixtape. I could do that for sure. There are there's it dates itself a little bit but overall you do that now with Spotify. Yeah, make a Spotify playlist. So, and with all these books that we're suggesting, the books that we looked at um and this is how we read any book is we take in we we read it. We ask what what the Holy Spirit, hey, what what of this is for me? And then if there's stuff that just doesn't resonate, we're like, you know, we're going to leave that part out. But overall, good book. And not not even like books on sex. Every book that we read that's authored by a human, I look at it from the the standpoint of the Holy Spirit. How the Holy Spirit is speaking to me through

that book. That's the things I'm circling and highlighting. Everything else I throw out. Yeah. And then this one, um, God, Sex in Your Marriage by Dr. Julie Slatterie. Um, also good book. All three of the books have spiritual warfare book. Yeah. This was more the spiritual warfare. It gave me that more kingdom mindset. Um and all of them have personal examples of their own relationship, the authors of the books and also they have been in uh counseling situations where they had other examples to give. So some real life examples which is super helpful and all of it uh around the word of God. We're not marriage counselors. We're not sex therapists. Nope. We don't even play ones on TV. No. But the reality is this for us. We do know the word and we know each other. And we believe that if we can teach people to honor their life in marriage through sexual intimacy that the rest of life is going to go really really well.

Yeah. Well, I mean the God tells us with all your heart, soul, mind, mind, and strength. And so, um, that's that's what we're talking about. And so, we don't have to compartmentalize our sex life just because the world has made it dirty. Um, we get to give that fully to God. Isn't it funny that God made it perfect, then the world made it dirty, and and the enemy made it dirty. Isn't that always the way? Yeah. And there's so much um and this is kind of leads to kind of our Well, we'll open it up for questions in a minute, but just the enemy has used sex in this world to hurt so many people. I mean, all those things I listed, you know, pornography, abuse, abuse, yeah, it's just it's sickening. But that's what the enemy has done. But that is not God's design. And that righteousness, purity, oneness, holiness, all those things that he meant

our sexual relationship with our spouse to be, right? And uh Yeah. Yeah. So, and there's hope for those that have broken that or messed up or, you know, didn't come into the relationship that way. There's still hope for them. So, what we want to do is just for the next couple minutes, if you guys have any questions, we'd love to try to answer them. If we don't know the answer, I promise you, we're going to say we don't know the answer, but we'll get back to you. Is does anyone have any questions? Yeah, back there. What thoughts do you have on keeping things fresh and new in life? Like sexually speaking? So the question is, what thoughts do you have on keeping things fresh and new sexually speaking? Yeah, I would say uh like I said, we we need to make sure that it's okay for both the husband and the wife. That's the key. We also need to keep in mind to to u try to honor and outdo each other.

And so if your wife needs something that you're not doing or to keep it fresh, she can say, "Hey, you know, maybe this is the way we always do it. Let's try something new. Let's try in a different space." All those kind of things. I think just keeping yourself open-minded and listening to your spouse and what their needs are. And this book has 200 uh 200 ways that you can get intimate with your spouse. Yeah. Um but yeah, I think I agree with you, Jerry. Um, you know, it's it's like the the bedroom is kind of a byproduct of the other parts of our life, right? So, are you bathing me in words of love? Am I speaking to you kindly? Um, and then are we are we going on dates? Are we holding hands? You know, all of that leads into, you know, the other. But yeah, I don't know. Do you have anything else for kids?

Yeah, I think I think the way I treat you all day long makes a difference. the way you respect me in our in our marriage makes a difference. Right. If you don't show me respect and honor, then I don't feel loved. And if I don't treat you with kindness and gentleness, then you don't feel loved. That's right. I think the biggest thing uh that you can do to keep it fresh, quit don't stop dating your spouse. Don't stop doing those specialty. And Montel said it earlier today. Don't stop doing the things you used to do when you were younger and when you were dating. Don't forget the gentle touch with no sexual innuendo at all. Don't forget to bring her flowers now and again. Don't forget those things that actually made her want you and you wooed her with. Yeah. Do we have any other questions?

I just really appreciate the the energy you guys put in just having both of us here without um like let's just pack it up and go like but thanks for all your attention. Yeah. You bet. Yeah. So, the comment was, "If you're not in the room and you're watching this later, chicken like the coward you are." Just kidding. Just [laughter] kidding. Um, there is actually only one other couple that was brave enough to physically come here and they're just thanking us for the time we put into it. And so, it was truly our pleasure. Yeah. Do you guys have any questions at all? Do you think it'd be good to have like a habit um to let's say a weekly date like seems like a structure in a sense to almost like uh a weekly encounter to try to focus on the romance?

Yeah, I think that's a Say the question. Great question was great question. The question was this. Uh, do you think there should be a weekly um purpose of making sure that you're dating and keeping it fresh and keeping the romance going? Here's what I'd say. It's yes and no. Yes, in that you should continue to woo your spouse. You can should continue to pursue them. No, if it's every Wednesday at 5:00 we're going to dinner and then the expectation is intimacy afterwards. I think that is the worst way you could do it. So if it's legalistic, no. If Yeah. If it's out of but I think if the heart behind it is scheduling because we want to keep it fresh, we want to keep um our romance alive. I think it it depends both people's heart behind it. If Yeah, man. I was just going to say this.

I I felt like the Holy Spirit said this to me in that moment and and I and I'm trying to struggle with how to put it in words. I think it's something like this. If that is on your heart and your mind that you think on a weekly basis that you should be wooing your spouse, then God, Holy Spirit might be just speaking to you about an area where you could do better at. Does that make sense? Like an area that you could put more energy into. And perhaps it could be different every week. It wouldn't have to be, you know, uh we're going to go to Wild Rose and then we're going to go to a movie and then we're going to come home. But you put some effort into that. I think that's the whole point of this, right? the effort I put into her is going to reap rewards. Not just in a sexual sense, yes, of course, but also in a

relational sense, and we're going to become closer the more effort I put in. And I think you had a follow-up question is if we do that, and we don't have a set in stone date. We're empty. We're empty nesters now, so we can do Yeah. But we do have certain things that that are kind of us and they're not particularly romantic, but you know, if we are at a Starbucks on an afternoon and we're just drinking tea and talking like we feel like we're on vacation. Yeah. I don't drink tea. I drink coffee. When we're on vacation, you drink green tea with I do. Yeah. Especially when it's hot outside. Yes. Yeah. So, we'll just sit and we'll actually just pretend like we're there. And the same feelings we have on vacation, we can have down down on Reed Market Road at at a coffee shop. And so, just really those intimate times where you you uh think, "Man, I really love that." Recreate that. If you said, "Man,

if she said, "I really love that." Recreate it as often as you can. Does that make sense? Any other questions? We got to wrap it up pretty quick. How are we doing on questions? Good on top. Great. I just I guess I think of the the just the general concept uh and I believe it's a verse somewhere but talk it basically just says uh he who refreshes others will himself be refreshed. Amen. So the state Yeah. Go ahead. So that seems to uh take your I just I guess a lot of things I enjoy doing but when you bring someone alongside and then put them in bring that into your enjoyment but make sure they're having the time of

their life right first. Right. Gives me in on the back end overall more joy than me putting myself in that pleasure situation. Absolutely right. And uh I just think that that works in many areas other than just sexual. Yeah, that's right. Culture says self focused. Kingdom says other focused. So as long as I can think of the other person as much or more than myself, then they're going to have a great time. And then I think what you're saying is then the blessing actually comes back on you% if you're focused on the other person. And so and that's that's that's kingdom. That's the Yeah. Because your relationship get shift gets stronger. You feel closer to that person. Your friendship gets greater and your intimacy gets a lot a lot stronger as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Um we did want to recognize this is kind this is kind of our final closing thing is that um maybe people that are that are struggling. Yeah. If if if there has been infidelity or um things were brought into the marriage um that no matter your past, it doesn't matter. God offers forgiveness, healing, and restoration. And so in some scenarios, you know, a professional Christian counselor, marriage counselor might I like you said Christian counselor. That's important. It is important because the ways of the world are different than the ways of God. That's right. Um that might be the best path for a couple. Yeah. But we do have the ultimate counselor, which is the Holy Spirit who's at work in us. And so whatever um there but there are times when we need we need a help. We need some help. And so, um, but I think this little exercise that we're going to share, I just think it would be something good to do on the

regular. Um, maybe when people leave the conference or maybe on Wednesday when you take out the trash or whatever. Um, but just, you know, to get a moment and what do you think, Jerry? What what would that look like? Yeah, I mean, why don't you read the three things that we wrote down and then I want to talk about a little bit one little last thing we got. Yeah, just really, you know, grabbing each other, looking in the hands and looking each other in the eye and saying, "I choose you again." Um, I honor our our covenant, our commitment. I honor that and let's let's do this God's way, not the way of the world, not the way we've been doing it. Maybe it's so your marriage is at a place where it's so broken and so um so in danger right now that perhaps you would take a couple days write down new vows. Write them down and find a special place and go with your spouse and sit together and actually read those vows back over each other.

I think that's a really good way to restore marriage and forgiveness. Oh yeah, forgiveness. If we don't forgive, we're not forgiven. So forgiveness is a huge thing. And I think you know we were so stinking young when we got married. Um, we had to finish raising each other for one. But, you know, we said those vows and I I was so much in love and I looked like a princess and it was just lovely that I don't even know. I don't even remember per se what I said. But now when I go to a wedding or when I, you know, look, oh yeah, it's like for better, for worse, rich or poor, sickness and health, as long as we both shall live till death do us part. Forsaking all others. Forsaking all others. Um, you're not just my first choice, you're my only choice. Um, it it it lands different than it did when I was 19. Yeah. Um, you know, for all those who are going to watch this and for you too, we we want to just say thank you. Thank you for coming. Uh, one of our biggest fears was that it would be only be one couple and here we

are. But it went great. It was fine. I'm going to pray real quick and then we're going to let you guys go. Father God, thank you so much that you created marriage and you created to be perfect. That God, you give us a spouse, a helpmate that we can help one another. I pray Lord God that our eyes and our ears and our mind and our soul would be devoted to you first and to our spouse only second in Jesus name. Amen.