About this conversation
In this conversation from Confessions of a Pastor, Pastor Keith Kirkpatrick welcomes worship leader and songwriter Martin Smith to Journey Church in Bend, Oregon. Keith opens by naming Smith's global impact and his humility, then asks where Smith himself has been shaped. Smith traces it to a conservative upbringing and a turning point at nineteen, when someone laid hands on him to receive the Holy Spirit; he describes the shift in how he saw everything, and says he began writing songs soon afterward, including the one he identifies as his first.
The conversation moves through Smith's years with Delirious: opening stadium shows for Bon Jovi, learning to sing to the back row, and the deliberate decision to end the band in 2009. Smith describes the decade that followed as a humbling retraining, with ordinary Saturdays at home and small events where he carried his own guitar. He and Keith discuss how the longing for more can be misaligned, and Smith says the stories in Scripture go wrong when people move ahead without the Lord's blessing. He also describes a daily rhythm of Bible reading, prayer, silence, and exercise, while cautioning that it is not a formula for every season.
Much of the second half concerns revival and the global Church. Smith explains that his revival songs grew from the work of the Holy Spirit, a local church culture that talked about revival, and the outpouring that reached the UK in the early 1990s. He names repentance, prayer, and a divine outpouring beyond human control as marks of revival, and says the painful lesson of the Welsh Revival was pastors competing for recognition. Looking ahead, he expects harder discipleship and humble leaders who gather churches across a city. He closes by contrasting economic comfort in the West with the walk of faith he observed in Asia, and Keith prays over him.
The conversation,
in their words.
Transcript from the recording’s captions. Select any timestamp to hear the original audio.
Welcome to Confessions of a Pastor where we talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly all for the glory of God. And today I am beyond excited because we have a very special guest. He is the man, the myth, the legend, the one and only Martin Smith, everybody. Well, and the truth is, Martin, I got to say, we can call you the man, the legend, but I've come to call you the meek Martin. Oh, amazing. Because you are the one that travels the world and in the blessing of the biatitudes, blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth. Wow. And I just I love who you are. I love your disposition, your humility. Uh I just I'm I've been blessed and honored to spend a few days with you this week. So, thank you for being here today.
And likewise, it's been great to be here at Journey Church. Ah, praise God. getting to know you all and uh you know what what a joy it's been just to hang out with the team and well I appreciate it. Yeah. Amazing. Bend, Oregon is is usually not known outside of the circle of the West Coast and so now you've come to Bend. You got bad weather. Uh you you you weren't able to travel like you're supposed to because of the weather in the Pacific Northwest, but you'd be willing to come back to Bend. Well, I mean, it's isn't it great to um make new friends? And uh you know, a lot of a lot of um things I do are all out of pre-existing relationships and friendships. Amen. And and then every now and again, you you think, "Oh, no. I need to um I need to go to that place. That looks
interesting." And and uh it's been a great week. Well, I thank you on behalf of Journey Church and all of Central Oregon that's now been impacted. Right. Thank you for saying yes. Really appreciate it. And I would love to just cover every topic possible. Yeah. If I can just get a glimpse into your heart, your life, your past, your present, and then let's even talk future hope of what is God going to do through the church prayerfully in our lifetime. Yeah. What does that look like? And maybe I can just start off by asking some general questions and then we could just unpeel this layer and see see where this goes. Uh first, you have performed in stadiums. You've led worship to thousands and thousands of people. And what was really unique this week with you being a journey church is we heard dozens of stories of people who have been impacted by you,
the songs you've written, the worship you've led. And so you've impacted thousands of people, probably more than you'll ever know in this lifetime. And who knows if you'll ever know, maybe in heaven, who knows? Yeah. But you impact people in a way from the platform. Where have you been impacted? Is there a moment you can look back on your life and say, "Wow, when this person led me in worship." Sure. Or was it not in a public place? Is it in the private space, a prayer closet or Sure. Yeah. I mean I mean it's all those things, isn't it? Okay. When I look back over my life, it's a million different moments that um stack up to what helps you become the person you are today. You know, um I was
brought up in a very conservative church and uh you know, we we didn't really talk about the Holy Spirit, not loads about Jesus either. Oh wow. So, a lot about garden church and Okay. you know, showing up on time and being a good kid, you know. So, um I don't regret that. My my parents are good people. Uh but then when I was 19 years old, someone laid hands on me to receive the Holy Spirit. And that was completely life-changing. Wow. That was a moment where everything went from sort of mono to 3D sound. Let's go technicol. Wow. And uh and in fact that's when I started writing uh songs which
I guess now we would call worship songs you know and I didn't really know it at the time. So one of the key points in my life I would have been 19 years old. Yes. Someone would have someone laid hands on me prayed for me to receive the Holy Spirit. Did you ask for that prayer? No. Okay. No. But I but I was ready though. M my heart was open and uh I knew that I needed I needed God in a way that I hadn't experienced up until that point. Let's go. And I saw it on the faces of people and I just knew that there was something missing in my life. Wow. So that was a massive turning point. Definitely my life opened up at that point. It was like everything went into sort of, you know, from mono to iMac cinema.
Let's go. And I started to see the world in a different way. Um, I started writing songs at that point, which I then found out would have been called worship songs. I didn't really know that at the time. And, uh, do you have your first song that you ever did? Do you still have that somewhere? Yeah, it was a a song called Lord, You Have My Heart. Oh, that's And it was that song. Yeah. Oh, wow. And I was I was 19 and I literally woke up with it the following morning, which was this is the melody, the words, everything. Crazy. Wow. And uh can't tell you how many times I've sung that walking around my house. Interesting. It's in It's It's so easy. It's beautiful. Amazing. Amazing. It's a great surrender like just wow. Okay.
I know. I mean so that was the beginning and uh you know I I then went on that journey to okay I think I should you know this whole music thing feels like that's going to be my life. Wow. And and at the time I was working in a recording studio as a sound engineer. Okay. So it wasn't like hey I'm then going to start suddenly touring the nations. It was it was years you know of just bit by bit slowly slowly and uh you know that's what I say to my own kids is is this is a slow build you know very rarely do you sort of overnight things happen overnight so um so that was the beginning and one of the main influences in my life at
that point would have been an American guy called Kevin Prush okay he was part of the vineyard worship movement down in Southern California. John Whimber and all those guys and they were writing all these amazing songs and they were starting to flood the UK and and they were just so fresh, you know, they're very intimate. Wow. Very easy to sing. And uh yeah, he he influenced the UK in a big way because he showed up with an electric guitar and a guitar amp and started leading worship like that and we'd never seen anything like it. you know, it's like, "Oh, I thought that uh you were only ever allowed to lead from a piano or an acoustic guitar, and then suddenly this guy ripped up the script,
but Sunning in us just sort of exploded like, oh, wow, this is giving us permission to be who we are." And certainly for me, um, that's the way I wanted to lead. I didn't I didn't want to lead with a rainbow guitar strap. I I wanted to turn the volume up and I think in in the end that's what Delirious the band was in a sense. It took everything that the UK had had in the last 30 years, amazing people like Graeme Kendrick writing all these brilliant hymns. Wow. But we just took that and turned it up a bit louder. Yeah. And that that was the sound of delirious. Wow. So to come back to moments when you've been impacted, you know, over the last three decades, do you find when
you're impacted by the Lord, it impacts your ministry to lead better or to lead with, dare I say, like an anointing, like a power that you couldn't do on your own or where is the the greatest impact come from? Because especially delirious over those, you know, that season impacted a generation around the world. Yeah. You know, and certainly it was been really fun for me to hear stories with you here of so many people that have been impacted. Uh those moments for you, do you find that those helped you or influenced the way that you led or worshiped? Yeah, of course. I mean, obviously I I live in England. I'm English. Yes. I think that your culture and your surroundings geographically affect the way you lead worship.
And you notice that as you travel around the world that everyone's got their flavor and different songs and different style and different tempo. I mean, you know, if you go to Uganda in Africa, Yeah. it's not going to sound like Journey Church and Bend. Yeah. You've been to Uganda? Yeah. And that's the that's the great wonder of Yes. of this thing we call worship music is that it should really reflect the locality. Amen. And not just always be sort of an imported sound. Yeah. From from from you know Nashville or wherever. So um I think I think I think you know living in England shaped us. We we live in a
very small country. the only way to survive as a musician is to not just do the church thing but also, you know, have your eyes on playing similar places to the mainstream guys. So that was our dream is that we wanted to take church music outside the walls of the church. Make it mainstream. Yeah. And and and make that possible for kids that had never come to church to hear, you know, sort of spiritual music. So, can we can we go there for a moment? Sure. Uh, what what's maybe uh the most well-known band that you guys have played with or performed with that is not churched? Sure. Um, I mean, back in the day and and the the kids listening to this won't probably
know these names, but we did a UK stadium tour with a band called Bon Joy. Oh, come on. And they were Let's go. Five. That was five stadiums. And so you opened for Bon Jo. Let's go. Um and that I don't know how any kid couldn't even know. I mean it was amazing. Wow. It was amazing because I tell you why it was amazing on on two levels. We were just this little worship band from from a village on the south coast of England essentially. We were just church kids suddenly allowed to be on these big stages. Yeah. with 98% of the people there uh would never have heard of us. They weren't there for us, you know.
Yeah. They're there for Bon Joy. So, a great challenge for me as a front person to try and connect with people. Yeah. Not only were they not our fans, but they, you know, they they were just uh you know, rock and roll fans. How did that audience respond? Well, that's that's the great mystery, isn't it, about music music, the anointing, yeah, grace of God, uh, is that we were able to connect and, uh, mysteriously people like the music, you know, we we were a good band. So, so we earned the right to be there. It wasn't like, oh, you know, how did they get there? Yeah.
Yeah. Maybe one day we'll be good enough to do that. It was a legitimate thing. Um but and then the other thing is that I watched uh John Bonjovi during his set a lot. I studied it. Yeah. And worked out how he sort of led that crowd. Yeah. So I I learned a lot on that week because uh he was just a master craftsman at the big crowd thing and I'd never played really in front of that many people. Yeah. And so it's a whole different context to a Sunday morning. Wow. Um, you know, where everyone's there and they're around you and Yeah. Um, so yeah, the expectation to worship. Yeah. Versus a rock concert. That's right. Yeah.
So I did I did a learned a lot and some of those skills, you know, now you can incorporate into things that I do now. Yeah. Um, you one of the things that he said to me was always sing to the back row. Oh, come on. That's a good word. And um that's that is important even when you're leading worship is Amen. having a heart for the people at the very back. Yeah. And how do you then include them? Wow. And then that that you know, so that involves bit bit pastoral thought and and wanting to involve the whole room, not just the crazies at the front. Yes. Well, I find at Journey Church often times people get saved in the back row. Yeah.
And I'll prophetically even speak to them and say, "You might have been sitting in the back row, but God sees you." Yeah. He knows you. He's been waiting for this moment. Uh because there's just something about that back row. Yeah. That if you can get them, you get everybody. Yeah. You know, it's it's a it's a very beautiful picture. So, you guys haven't been a band for quite some time. Yeah. you took a timeout. For those who don't know why you took a timeout, can you just explain your heart behind that? Sure. And that journey the last uh couple of decades of um Yeah. Our our last ever uh concert was at Hammersmith Apollo, which is in the middle of London. Okay. You knew it would be your last show. Yeah. Yeah. We planned that to be our last one. That was 2009.
Uh, interestingly, this is a slight sideish thing, but where we go to church now is right next to that venue. So, even prophetically for me, full circle. Yeah. I'm now doing church right next to that building. Yeah. 17 years later, and I think I think the church we're in will take that building at some point, you know, let's go for for events. So, um, yeah, that was our last night. It was packed out. Wow. Um, very emotional. You know, I wanted it to end and I didn't want it to end. Yeah. You know, it was that sort of combination. Um, but there were five families involved. We were all very close. Lots of family connections.
And I think my wife and I just felt like our season, that assignment was done. Yeah. And uh it's really important, isn't it, to know recognize the seasons you're in. Amen. And not to overstay the season you're in. Yeah. Cuz then it gets messy and Yeah. don't have the same grace for it. And I did feel like that. I felt like the grace for it was running out. Wow. And and everyone, you know, had their heart on other things and we certainly did as well. So that ended and uh really I came off the road, you know, as much as I could and uh was at home for for large parts of that first two years.
Um our kids were becoming Was that a big shift for you? Was it hard to be home or did you just love it after being on the road for so many years? Um do you know what? I did love it. It was the first time really in our married life that we were able to kind of do normal things. Wow. And um you know that was a revelation to us. And I remember getting to the seventh Saturday in a row thinking, "Oh, this is what like people do, isn't it? They hang out on a Saturday and they they don't have to leave." Yeah. Yeah, they they they just and and so we we really enjoyed that. My my ego missed the big Yeah. things that I was used to doing.
Okay. you know, so I went from playing these big venues with a with a crew and a team and, you know, amazing to just being on my own and just, you know, carrying my guitar to a small event and leading worship. Wow. And um I think that was a good period of time for me. It humbled me a lot and um still humbles me a lot. Yeah. But um that that's life, isn't it? But yeah, but definitely that was like I was being retrained for what was coming. Okay. And now I can see looking back that decade was really formative for me.
U you know when you go into the shadows a bit it's painful as I said for your ego is screaming I want you I want what was before. I don't want to let go of the big thing. But actually, it was really good for my body, soul, and spirit. Wow. And and and of course, my my children were growing after I was around more. So, it was it was brilliant. Wow. I that's pretty deep in the sense of I think everyone although they may not play on the stage or the platform publicly can relate to this in some way particularly in the world that we live in of social media and uh not just social media blogs and all the things that are there YouTube and everything that we value when and I
I'm generalizing here when the more followers the more likes the more something the more I feel like I'm validated. Yeah. You know, as long as people see me, as long as they like it, I'm validated. And if if you don't have that, can you still have an identity? Yeah. And for you, in this case, as a husband, uh a father, Yeah. most importantly, are you still a child of God? Yeah. Does God love you just for who you are? Not because you're liked by, you know, the multitudes, if you will. Yeah. I think that's it's it's a great reflection for us to think about. Yeah. Uh privately because if we can get to that place, there's a maturity and a character there. Yeah. And and and we we know all these things to be true Yeah.
Um we know the right things to say and the right way to behave. Yes. But we we have the flesh, don't we? Yes. And like you say, I don't think it matters what area of life you're in, whether you're running a tech company or uh a firefighter or a senior pastor of a church, right? Everyone struggles with the flesh. Come on. And and wanting to be greater. Yeah. We all we just want to be greater than we really are. And we want more. We want more of I want another big song. I want uh more royalties. I want Yeah. more. I want more of everything. Um but the, you know, the Lord is so clear. It's like I am, you know, you're you're my
son, you're my daughter. Amen. And that's enough. Yes. And to try and be content. Yes. with but you know mo most places I go um I can see that's the struggle of most ministry people. Yeah. Including all the big senior pastors. Wow. It it's a struggle to um you know you have one campus then you want another campus. You have five campuses then you want all right we're going to 10. Yeah. And you begin to drive the things so hard. M it's really important to know that you're being obedient. Yeah. As opposed to just building your empire.
Yeah. Do you think I'm I'm just going to go uh theory and opinion here. The longing for more is actually potentially created by God. Yeah. That we are longing for more whether it be heaven or to be in God's presence or whatever it is, but it's just misaligned. Yeah. You know, our flesh and of course we have a real enemy of this world that tries to lure us through temptation. Yeah. That maybe we're we're meant for more, but often times it's misguided. Yeah. Would you agree with that? I agree. Yeah. I mean, I think we're all creative beings. Yes. And we should be creating more every day. We should be be fruitful and multiply. Yeah. Even if even if you're a mom with kids at home, Yeah. you're wanting to be creative.
Yeah. in that day, aren't you? You know, you come up with crazy things to do with your kids and Yeah. I think God inspires that. Um, but it's, you know, if you if you look back on all the great stories in scripture, the moment it goes wrong is when you go ahead without the blessing of the Lord, isn't it? Ooh. And you know, you look at the life of Moses and Wow. It's and the Israelites, that's where the problems start. And and I've got a hundred of those stories. Wow. Where I look back and I think I was too urgent. Okay. I thought I knew best. My ego got in. I wanted to do that thing. Wow. But I didn't take the time to find out whether um got God's blessing on it.
Yes. And that's a hard discipline. And I think um you know, you're learning that, aren't you, every day? And and and that's why those times in the morning. Yes. Where you take yourself away from everybody and you you pray and read and reflect. And that's the moment for me where I'll say, "Hey, am I Am I doing all right, Lord? Am I Amen. Am I in the right, you know, am I things I'm doing the right things? You were pouring into our worship team just about disciplines and you becoming who God wants you to be privately before you are doing things publicly or even writing songs. You mentioned some of them of scripture reading, reading through your Bible, uh spending time in
prayer. Uh what does that look like for you? Do you set an alarm in the morning or do you just wake up and just start there? Um what is what does a daily routine look like for Martin Smith maybe on an average day? Sure. Yeah. I mean and and I I don't mind sharing that but obviously but also I don't want people to think well that's formula that's the formula. Yeah. Yeah. Because what appreciate that what God's doing in my life is different to come on and also there are different seasons. So when I was 20 years ago when I had six children waking up in the middle of the night, it's a little harder. I probably wasn't doing an hour of prayer. And there are moms that listen. So come on. And so let's go. And I think, you know, the Lord knows that like there's grace. Yeah.
There's grace for every season. And um you know I think you you know when you're in that stage of life you have to find the moments don't you you got to really fight for the moments to to do those things and maybe you know you're feeding one of your babies so you can't physically read. So maybe there's an audio book or but but you have to have the desire still yes to connect with him. Um I think he helps us do that. But anyway, at the moment, um, because it's body, soul, and spirit, right? Right. So, especially, you know, at our age, yeah, it's got to be all three. Work a little harder. All All thing, all three of those things have to work together to bring some sense of wholeness, right?
So, I will in the winter season uh cuz you know, England's pretty wintry most of the time and dark. Okay. I will I'll get up and go down uh stairs and I'll set aside an hour and um I'm a coffee nerd. So I enjoy, you know, making a little bit of coffee. Okay. And I do a one-year Bible plan, so I I read the Bible cover to cover every year. And that's something that I've pretty much done since the age of 19. So which Bible plan do you use? Um it's it's called the olive olive tree. Okay. Uh app anyway. So that's really helped me because uh I don't think I'm over overly disciplined, but it but it locks me in
and if I miss a day, it reminds me, hey, you got to be you got to do two days today, you know. So I I find that really helpful. Um, and then I've got some other readings that I do. Um, not just from charismatic authors, but from sort of old texts that I appreciate, different language um, which I enjoy reading. and then and then I'll pray and some of that will be I'm trying to discipline myself to uh also sit in silence u because that is a something that that I'm trying to learn to do more just to be there. Tell us about that like what benefit do you have of being in silence?
Well, for me, because I'm so creative and productive, you know, my brain is wired to produce things, right? So, I'm almost saying to the Lord like that there's this time here that is just for you. Like, I I I'm not I'm not wanting to get anything out of this. I'm not wanting a song idea or a scripture to inspire me. I'm just going to be with you. And I know that feeling now as a dad. If one of the one of my kids is in the car with me and we're driving somewhere and we're just sitting in silence, you know, we're not actually talking much.
It's okay. It's okay. And but we are communicating though. There's deep communication that happens even in those moments, especially with your teenage kids. Yeah. Trust. So, um, so I'm learning more to do that. And, uh, and then I'll do some physical exercise. So, running or, you know, something of that nature. So, like a couple of hours. Yeah. And that's my morning routine. And then in the summer months, I'll probably switch. I'll probably get up and go running first. You got your running shoes on? Yeah. Have you ever run a marathon? No, I've done a couple of halves, but Okay. I'm yet to do that. Are you going to do it? I don't know. I got a my my right knee is a bit dodgy. Oh, no. So, I don't know. I don't know.
Wow. Well, I uh want to apologize to our listeners for my coughing. I have lost my voice. I've been struggling sickness for a few weeks and then having you here has caused me to get excited and sing my heart out and uh the last few days I've struggled. So the struggle is real. I've got lozenes, but I I want to make sure that um this moment wasn't lost. I still wanted to do it. I I debated cancing this this interview and podcast with you. Uh can we go to some songwriting? Uh just some of the songs you've written. what does the process look like? And uh I I would love just to hear more of your heart. So you've sung songs about revival.
What was that birth out of? Where where did revival in your heart? Uh is it you heard about it in history, you read about it, you got glimpses of it, and you long for more and you've written songs about it. Uh what tell us your heart about revival. Sure. And then eventually I want to talk about what is that going to look like moving forward. And I want to maybe ask about a few songs in light too. So where did your heart for revival come from? Well, I think a mixture of things. I think initially the the spark of the Holy Spirit in you. Amen. Is a revival spirit. So that's the nature of God, isn't it? Is to draw people unto himself. And so he's always
uh ready to pour out his spirit on on all flesh, right? Yeah. So I think that is part of becoming a Christian, part of being a Christian and part all of us should have revival in our heart. Yeah. Yeah. That is the nature of being a Christian really. Amen. Is following Christ and then echoing what Jesus talked about. Yeah. Which is the kingdom of God on the earth. And Amen. you know, so you can't escape that. Second thing would have been I would have been in an environment locally in a church that talked about revival. So that is helpful as well. You know, it was in it was in our culture. And then you go back to 1992.
Okay. 93 the Toronto. Okay. Revival outpouring. Did you go there? Did go there. Yeah. And um but more importantly it it impacted the United Kingdom in an amazing way. Our church was having meetings every night for weeks and weeks. Wow. People getting filled with the Holy Spirit. So So you actually experienced it. Yeah. As a young person. Yeah. Saw it firsthand. And uh and Delirious is a band at that time. Maybe I think maybe earliest I think it came later the band a little later but we were still we were running our youth event okay called cutting edge and that would have been in the in the middle of that time.
So yeah and and when I look back on songs that I wrote in that era okay like did you feel the mountains tremble is a revival song. I was going to ask about that song next and all the you know the the returning of hearts to Jes and old will return return to Jesus. Amen. You know revival all the streams flow as one river um is really about the the the awakening of all the denominations. Yes. you know coming together as one river and that would be my prayer and I think that's something I do carry as a person is that I'm a person about cities and nations rather than one let's go
particular local um that's how my brain works and and I and and it connects with people even what was it the line of our God reigns or one of the songs where it talks about God can still save a nation Yeah. And people, they naturally seem to get excited. Yeah. It's like, yeah, he can, you know, there's you can feel an audible, you know, excitement from people. And interestingly, there aren't there aren't actually many worship songs that talk about the nations. Yeah. Um, if you think back to right at the beginning of time, Adam and Eve, you know, um, in in the garden
and, you know, they weren't supposed to, you know, take the fruit from the tree. Yeah. But it says even then that the leaves of that tree were for for the healing of the nations, which I don't fully understand if I'm honest. And then um you know then then it echoes down into New Testament that Jesus is the healing of the nations. Amen. So so powerful, isn't it? So yes, we we have to have a local perspective which is um yeah we're doing Sunday. What are the songs we're going to do Sunday? The detail of the local. Yeah. But then we have to give people the big picture. Yeah, that we are part of something not only
in our own nation but around the world that um you know Christians crying out for the return of Christ. Well, there's so much that excites me about what you're saying uh because it resonates in my own heart when my wife and I went through our own personal burnout in 2022. God was moving and speaking clearly during that season. is like he works and still loves you through your own valleys. Yeah. And there was someone that gave me a prophetic word that was a little confusing during that time, but she she said, "Keith, ask God for the nations. It's not too much. It's it's in his word. You don't need to go to the nations. Ask God and the nations will will draw close." And there's some scriptural support regarding behind that. Yeah.
That I didn't know until later. Yeah. And I've shared with you some of our journey. That's when we really started being moved by the Holy Spirit. Yeah. To operate in the gifts. Um to fight a spiritual fight. Yeah. And so now all of a sudden songs that I knew like did you feel the mountains tremble have fresh revelation? Yeah. And that was one of the questions I was going to ask you is what is the story behind that song? And I feel like you've kind of answered it. Um, was that the story behind the song was for revival or was it just this is what revival looks like? Well, I mean it's it's too lofty for me to understand, you know, I don't fully understand. I mean, because you were a young person when you wrote it. Yeah. So now decades after writing it. Yeah. You watch it the song mature as you mature almost. Yeah. I was 24 years old. Okay.
And when I when I now sing those lyrics Yes. To me, it feels beyond the understanding of a 24 year old kid, right? Praise God. So, it it had to be a had God's hand on it. Yeah. It had to be a supernatural thing to to write about even Jubilee and the returning of Come on. You know, so I I you know, I I was I was a Bible reader, you know. So, so I I had that in me. But um yeah, I wouldn't have fully understood that then. Yeah. And and and I don't fully understand it now, apart from I can see that it's warming up. Yeah.
I can see that even, you know, my kids generation, the Gen Z's are picking that song up again. Wow. And it's almost got a different sound to it now. Wow. Yeah. Amazing. Well, you have such a heart for young people. I mean, you came to Oregon from Southern California where you were working with youth and young adults in worship. And I say working, you know, leading worship and rubbing shoulders, I think circuit writers and uh but I'm wondering if your heart for young people is because you were so impacted as a young person and there's an unleashing maybe a mandate if I could go so far as to commission a young generation to say just do it. You don't know what God's
going to do through you now that later it was God when you just let him do it. Yeah. You know, like don't don't wait until you're mature enough or know enough or uh understand it enough, you know? Yeah. Um because look what he did through young Martin. Yeah. you know, uh would you say that's got some truth on that that God has called you to work with young people to maybe unleash them in their generation? Yeah, I mean, sure. I mean, I I definitely have a heart for for all three generations. Amen. You know, you know, working together. I think again local church a local church that's healthy will will
will always have all three generations operating in a healthy way you know respect between all of them. Amen. Um the sort of concept of a youth church which we would have had 20 years ago. M is is okay for a certain time. Okay. But in the end, yeah, all three generations have to be under the same roof. And that and that is the sound of family, isn't it? And wholeness and yeah, fruitfulness. And so, so I think that's a sweet spot for me now. I'm older. But then every now and again I'm, you know, I have the joy of going into a youth night or whatever, but even at my age, and, you know, sort
of having the joy of partnering with people and I, you know, I've got a new song that I' I've written with the guys at Circuit Riders in LA with Lindy. It's called Burning Hearts, and it is basically a revival song. Has it been released? Uh, no, not yet. So, okay. Um, but Burning Hearts because of now I can look back, I can talk about the keys of revival. Yeah. Uh, whereas if I wrote that song when I was 22, it probably just would have been a uh, you know, more of a heart Yeah. expression. But now there's a little bit of head and heart.
Amen. and and and and making sure you know these are the scriptural principles as well for revival and um so yes exciting I mean what amen exciting life we all have you know it is so uh we asked about revival in a place like Bend and you gave a great word a few days ago I would love to maybe talk about that a little more you talk about the three generations in a church you know children you know younger adults and then older adults I I think that's a beautiful picture which we have here at Journey Church and we long for revival. At least my heart burns for it. And uh you had mentioned um you know releasing authority. Um forgive me I'm going to paraphrase. Yeah. But you could
use your own words and not caring about who gets the credit. You know desiring just God to move. Yeah. You know through the church capital C. Yeah. And uh what do you see for revival if if it was to break out this year 2026? We're still early. It's March. I don't care where it breaks out. Just praying for a movement in all the nations. Yeah. But is it going to be worship? Is it going to be prayer? Is it going to be combination? Yeah. You know, um what what what are your thoughts on revival moving forward? Yeah. Prophetically future. I mean, none of us really know, do we? But no, we don't. But it will be. If you could dream, it will be some of the things we've seen in history, you know. Okay. Um I I think of the Welsh Revival.
Yep. Early 1900s. Um I've been to a few of those chapels. Wow. And sat in there and and just, you know, pondered on the thought that there there was these places were filled with people. Yeah. Um, you know, there's stories of farmers out harvesting crops and suddenly they come under the presence of the glory of God. Wow. Like divinely. They're not even thinking, you know. Yeah. And kneeling behind their tractor and praying for forgiveness of sins. Praise God. And um yeah, amazing amazing stuff. But interestingly, and would you say that started with prayer? The Welsh revival. Yeah. I think there's there's three ways that there's there's a general repentance of sin. Amen.
There's a there's a passion for prayer. Yeah. And then the third thing is a divine outpouring that is completely out of our control. Amen. That we have nothing to do with. Yeah. So, um I'm You don't know what it looks like because it hasn't happened or it is happening. Yeah. I mean, I I I love that crazy little story. I think it's 1 Samuel when um they're they're going to war and um you know they're like crying out to God like come and save us otherwise we're all going to you know and
and then God says um you know just wait for the sound of marching in the trees. M wait until you hear the sound of marching in the trees and then you then you go and I'll give you victory. Um so that that is something outside of our effort because that's all about the angelic armies just saying right we're doing it we're doing it right now despite whether you're praying or fasting or whatever it's moving it's moving. Yeah we're doing this. Yeah. So I think that's really important. Um it in my studies of some of those revivals that the the mo the most painful reality is Yeah.
they said that the main reason those Welsh revival stopped Yeah. was because of the local pastors. And that's painful, isn't it? Cuz they they wanted the recognition. Yeah. And then they started to fight with each other and Oh, wow. bicker over theology and our church is better, our worship's more holy. Yeah. You know, we're more pure, you know, and and the ego starts to be rules. The ego Yeah. took over and you know, they you know, I want the biggest church. I want revival in my church, not down the road with someone I don't disagree with. Yeah. But of course, the sovereignty of God's spirit being poured out on all flesh
is it we don't get to choose. It's going to be poured out. Amen. And there will be some people we go. So humility has to be the forerunner. Yeah. So that you don't think that it's about you. Yeah. I mean, you say that and I think to myself, people have never changed. We're just like the Israelites. Stiff necked. Exactly. Yeah. You know, the rabbis did that with the law, you know, later down the years where they create better rules about the rules. Yeah. You know, and one rabbi is better than another rabbi. And it's not it's it never changes. You one church is better than another church. And that still breaks my heart today when people talk. So, you know, at least in the American church, and I can assume, you know, it's in the UK as well in terms of Western church, you know, people look for what they want. I'm going to a new church because fill in the consumeristic reason. Yeah.
Better worship, better ministries, better preaching, better building. Yeah. You know, I I even hear in our own city, better convenience. It's closer to my house. Sure. It's like yeah 10 minute drive is you know like I mean I remember coming to America 25 years ago and um playing in this one particular church and it had exploded in numbers cuz it it had put a Starbucks in the lobby. Oh wow. How cool is that? You know but at the time that would have been like huge lifechanging. Yeah. And and so the church grew because oh great I can go there and I can do that and so obviously we're past that era but I do in answer to your question what do I see? Yes.
I think it will be uh harder, deeper, stronger disciplehip. Come on. So, wow. Don't be concerned about your own church being even big. Yeah. Or whatever. Care about making disciples. Yeah. And that's what Jesus commanded. Reading the word, praying. And that's and that's less glamorous. Yeah. It's less, you know, we don't, you know, get known for that as much. But I think that's going to be a sign of of of the next generation. Amen. Then the other sign will be those humble leaders that are able to gather all the churches together in a city.
Wow. And someone, that's what struck me what you said earlier this week. Yeah. Someone has to gather. Yes. Not everyone will have the equity or the anointing to gather, but for me, I've been in different situations now where where that happens, it literally is like, you know, the oil coming down Aaron's beard. Unity. Unity. Yeah. And I think that's it's a prophetic word. So those two things, Amen. Um I think are going to be key. I so that psalm has had a huge impact on me uh because the woman that told me ask for the nations um they lost their teenage son that same year and they ministered to so many people through his death
they knew he loved Jesus they love Jesus he's now an elder in our church wow and Psalm 133:1 has been their mantra uh how good and pleasant it is when when we dwell in unity Yeah. Because there's anointing, there's refreshment, and God commands a blessing. Yeah. And so I I want to just stand on that that we will in our lifetime in in the church, capital C, and all the nations uh get to see that anointing that's natural dripping down Aaron's beard. Yeah. You know, um through unity, it's just natural. Yeah. The Holy Spirit's outpouring. Uh you are traveling a lot again, leading worship around the world.
Um getting to do your own schedule now, which is just neat to hear your heart of wanting to go to places where you you know, you know, um just you're known or you know, you know, it's it's not about shows anymore. It's about uh connection. You know, it's I'm using my words, not yours. But um I want to just speak before we end our time. You went to Asia recently, did a Asian tour and mentioned what God's doing in Indonesia and the Philippines and uh then eventually I want to talk about the Middle East as well. Um could you give us some insight? What is God doing through the Asian church? How is it differently uh than the Western church? Just any insight you you got through your time um leading worship in the Asian church. I mean I heard people
are hungry. I heard God's using young people. Yeah. Um tell us tell us what you experienced in Asia. Yeah I I mean it is it's it's very humbling to see. Look I mean the difference between North America and let's say a a nation like Malaysia, Indonesia, India. Okay? You know America's a relatively new country, right? You know we're talking 3 400 years old. Some of these uh countries would have had Christians in them for Yeah. two and a half thousand years and then going back BC. Yeah. So there's an incredible people groups that have Yeah. Incredible heritage. There are deep wells. Wow.
That have been dug in those nations. Now some of those wells have been covered up by Islam. Yes. you know, like modernday Middle Eastern nations, which are now Islam, Islamic states, they weren't always, right? And so there are these worlds that are there. Amen. And um I love that image. And they've been covered up. Yeah. You're seeing um you're you're seeing some of that change a bit. Even even the the visible sort of thing about oil comes from a deep well. Come on. You know, in in some of those Middle Eastern countries and that's providing billions and billions of gallons of oil for the world.
And um and you sense that there will be something similar. Wow. In the spirit, I'm sure. But um but I mean it's too lofty to understand. Yeah. But but he here you've got it's a less glamorous version of Christianity. It's a less glamorous version of Christianity. Here here there's an economic buoyancy. Yeah. To working in the church, being a Christian. Um that's different to anywhere else in the world. And so you can have a career here in you know being a worship leader, a pastor, you name it. you know, it it can support you. Whereas if you're a pastor in, you know, Jakarta, um it's really a walk of faith. Totally.
You know, and and um wow. No one's going to know who you are, you know. It's it's it's a very humble journey. Do you think for this might be too bold of a question to ask, but do you think the American church, the leadership, pastors, we've received our reward? Well, cuz because you you shared stories about Asian pastors. Actually gets me even emotional thinking about it. Yeah. You know, pastors who have planted thousands of churches. Yeah. And they'll never be known on earth. No. Their names are not known in any American church. Yeah. Nobody's going to a conference to hear that pastor speak. No.
And and yet their their pastors under them. They're functioning like bishops, if you will. Yeah. Their pastors are being martyed to death. Yeah. And I mean, the book of Revelation tells us that those are the ones crying out, petitioning. I mean, um, so I don't know if that's too bold of a question to ask. Yeah. I I just think it's an amazing time in history. Um, I think something happens as well in a nation when it's been through war. Okay, that's a good word. And you know, the UK has been through two world wars. You know, a lot of European nations. That shapes a country. Yeah. So that that even shapes the sort of Christianity that comes Okay. out.
Also, you know, the the the church in America has never been persecuted. So, that's another thing that will at some some point happen in the history. You know, you think Yeah. Because it's in God's word. You think you look at Iran, blessing that follows it. Yeah. You look at Iran at the moment. Come on. I mean, there's all these underground churches and it's thriving. Yeah. It's growing. All been persecuted. Yes. You know, if you know, you know, if you if you sort of came out on the street and said, "Hey, yeah. We're going to have a worship night. We're going to have a worship night." Yes. You probably be killed. But the the the church in Iran is exploding. Yeah.
Just even in the last two, three weeks, you know, the numbers are are phenomenal. Amen. So again, that well Yeah. that has someone's tried to shut is sort of oil's coming. The oil's coming slightly opening. Come on. And then whoosh. Like uh watch this space, I reckon. Wow. But I think in hardship, persecution, it forms a certain sort of disciple. Yeah. Which you can't get unless you've been through that sort of hardship, I believe. And I and I'm you know I'm saying personally I've never experienced that. I live in the UK. Um we've been in peace for 70 years. So my generation has never experienced persecution either. I it's a beautiful and profound answer.
So thank you for not just answering it it quickly and easily with a yes or no. Um so I I I think we should wrestle with that and it's very I think the word of God supports everything you just shared. Well, uh, Martin, uh, I want to just say thank you for your time. Thank you for saying yes to coming to Bend, Oregon. I believe you brought an impartation here as as I was dreaming. And just like God's dream, sometimes you dream something and then it happens differently than you expected. Isn't that just God? Yeah. And I want to say thank you for the impact you've made, the ripple effect that it will make after you leave. And thank you for what you're doing. Uh, thank you for your humble heart. Uh, I would just like to ask if I could pray over you. Sure. We end our time and um I think you have a beautiful family. I
love hearing about them. I think that's probably your biggest legacy and uh what's to come for generations after. So uh stay true, my brother. Thank you to what God's called you to and can't wait to hear the songs that will continue to be birthed because that revival, may that never go out until the day you're in glory. Yeah. Uh may you go until your last breath. uh bringing forth revival in your generation. Come on. Uh come on. Well, uh Lord, I thank you so much for Martin. Thank you for what you've done in his early formative days in a conservative church, but then awakening his heart as a teenager. And then God, that maturity you keep bringing forth. And I call upon you in the name of Jesus Christ and say blessing and favor be upon him. I pray for that oil that would run down his life just like the oil down
the beard of Aaron. I pray that wherever he goes there would be unity. That you would protect him against any plan of the enemy, any temptation, any scheme. And we say, Lord, would you bless not only Martin but his family and the generations to come. Would you bless him for a thousand generations and bless, Lord, you're going to come sooner? We just cry out and say, Lord, come Jesus, come. and we thank you for his ministry that he's done, but we ask for even greater impact that God there would be a great awakening in our lifetime, something fresh and unique. So, we thank you what you're doing around the world in all the nations. And we say, Lord, would you gather your nations for such a time as this? And if we can be a part of that, we're going to give you the glory. And so, we love you, Jesus. Thank you for this time today. We ask for your hand upon every listener that they would
hear you and fall more in love with you in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Well, thank you friends and we'll see you next time on Confessions of Vassor.
