Life Change and Freedom

This is Confessions of a Pastor, a relentlessly real peak behind the scenes of Journey [music] Church in Bend, Oregon. From church in a strip club to a strip mall, going where Jesus would go to reach people Jesus would reach. This is the good, the bad, and the ugly. All for the glory of God. A journey of misery and miracles. We are your hosts and the founders of Journey Church in Ben. I'm Pastor Keith. And I'm Pastor Kara. [music] Come on, there really is hope for everyone. It's Confessions of a Pastor with your favorite pastors, Pastor Keith and Pastor Kara. Everybody. Hey. Yay. I don't know. We You have a Bible in your lap today. We're probably not the favorite pastors, but come on, somebody. We're at least We'll be your friends for just a moment. There we go. Yeah. I got my Bible here.

You are ready. It's like my binky, my blanket. [laughter] It's like as long as I got this, I'm okay. I like it. I'm going to be okay. Yes. Yeah, just makes me feel safe. I mean, that's awesome. Thanks. [laughter] Yeah, I just I love God's word. I don't know what do I do without it. Kara, there you go. Hey, we have hardly talked uh for a while and so thank God we get an hour or so just to like catch up in [laughter] front of the whole world. Yes. Uh I would like to get to know you more and see what God's doing in your life. Can we explain that maybe a little bit? Yeah, sure. And uh just catch up. I mean, before a week from today, we're going to get on several planes. Uh we're

going to go from here to Seattle, Seattle to New York, from New York to Tel Aviv a week from today. In fact, we will probably either be in the air or in New York right now. Yes, probably in the air. A week from now. A week from now. So, uh friends, this will be our last podcast with you for just a minute. Yes. Yes. And then maybe we can come back and just share details about the Holy Land. There you go. About what we experienced and and and and the encounters that we got to have in the land that God promised his people. So, uh yeah. So, the reason we haven't caught up for a while is we're both just burning on both ends. Yes. And you were in California all weekend. Yes. You got home uh midnight uh on Sunday morning. Uh, and I wake up before you

wake up and on Sundays and then church happens and then we got home yesterday and what'd you say to me on the couch? Something spiritual like what [laughter] was it again? Help me. We're not talking for the rest of the day. Don't talk to me. It wasn't like No, no, no. We weren't fighting. Nothing was wrong. It was just like, hey, like I'm tapped. My physical tank is empty. My emotional tank is empty. My spiritual tank is empty. Can we just be present? And we did. I did. Did I honor it for the most part? I 100% honored it. Thank you. There's only a few times I was like, "Do you want ice cream or something?" And you just looked at me, [laughter] you know, like, "Don't talk to me." Like, so, uh, well, my go-to food is savory and yours is sweet. Yeah. Yeah. I ate nothing but junk food yesterday. It's my comfort suit food besides the Bible. I mean, speaking of comfort food, uh, last week was my birthday and I don't think I've ever gotten so much candy in my life.

That's true. Uh because you know when you love somebody, you give them like the thing they're into. Yep. And like the only thing that people know I'm into is candy. Candy. And so like I need a new trinket. Like I need a new thing because um between dentist bills and diabetes. Yeah. We were thinking socks. Uh yeah, that's we talked about that like maybe socks because all my socks have holes in them. Yeah. And so speaking of diabetes, I don't I I wasn't sure I was going to tell you this but I think I will. Okay. In front of the whole world. You have diabetes? No. No. [laughter] Okay. So, somebody, you joked about that, the first service, and somebody [laughter] put in the offering box a whole note that was like uh essentially condemning that you prophesied that you were going to get diabetes. [laughter] Oh, boy.

Like, like I shouldn't be eating candy or the fact that I spoke negatively. Oh, okay. Yeah. Wow. Yep. Yeah. Well, I prophesy I'm going to be rich. There we go. and [laughter] um content and peaceful and see revival. Okay, I'm going to prophesy good things as well. It was just a joke. It was a complete joke. This particular person did not take it as a joke. No. And uh that's everybody understands your humor. When you're on a platform or even in a moment like this, like the moment you say something, it goes out there and and it gets critical. You can't pull it back. No, you can't. And sometimes people like to overanalyze. Um, I I leave it up to the Holy Spirit, though. If I'm not saying something, I shouldn't say like, "Oh, Holy Spirit, please." Um, yeah, I didn't mean that literal. I just meant I did get a lot of candy. I know.

And, uh, it should last a little while. I'll probably take a lot of it to uh, Israel with us next week. So, you were gone all weekend and I I want to hear from you because I haven't even heard I asked you permission because I don't even know what happened this weekend. It was called Life Change Weekend. you went with a few others and I would love to hear from you what happened. Then maybe we can follow up and talk about Sunday and just what's happening at Journey Church right now, where the Holy Spirit's taking us. Sure. I mean, there's there's a lot we can cover over the next several hours. [laughter] So, and really So, so tell me, so you went to Life Change weekend with a small team. We're we're looking at potentially doing something similar at Journey. uh this idea of uh being set free um freedom uh being understanding identity

uh releasing strongholds, generational lies, whatever the case might be. I don't even know. So you tell me. You got it pretty good. Uh okay. [laughter] So uh Friday, you guys get there. Tell me what happened Friday cuz I texted you Friday night before we went to bed. You said it was awesome. You didn't tell me anything about it. Like what happened Friday? Okay. So, first of all, it's they call it life change um event and um it's at the father's house in Vakavville and we did take a team and it started Friday night and Friday night um so it it builds on itself so you really have to be there for the entire time to really um experience the fullness of the freedom that you do receive at the end of the weekend. And the Friday um the first session Friday was they start at the at the beginning and they start with the cross and they started with some worship. Okay.

And I started balling during the worship. I'll just be really honest. Um they started with the song the blood which is just all about the blood of Jesus. Amen. And um at first I was like that's an interesting song to start with but it made so much sense as we progress through the the night. It's what we started at a rooted launch. Yeah it was. And there's ironically there's there's so there's just there's power in the blood. There's power in Jesus. It's where we have to start. And so they laid a foundation. And I pretty much balled through the entire message. Wow. It was uh so simple yet so profound just laying the groundwork for who Jesus is, why we all need him. He um the pastor that that preached the message um uh went through all of the commandments, every one of them, but he he did it in such a way that was

like so informal. It was so um non-condemning. The ten commandments you're referring to? Yes. Yes. Like and essentially like everyone like we've all broken these all of us. Pretty much every one of them, you know, but it just it in some form or another even if Yes. Exactly. So he laid the groundwork. He laid the foundation for why do we need Jesus? Why? Amen. And um and then really the the culmination of that was uh we took communion, but before that he played a a video that I I know you're familiar with. I was unfamiliar with it this so it hit me pretty hard. He he teed up essentially talking about Barabus and um and essentially Barabus was is a is a prototype is a picture of humanity. Okay. And then played the um the video the Judah Smith video. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

So, you're familiar with it. So, halfway through the video, I was like, I think that's Judah Smith. And I was like, maybe it's John Piper. No, I think it's Judah Smith. I [laughter] didn't I was very unfamiliar with all of it. So, and now you're familiar with it. Um, you know, there's that um uh internet Oh, evangelist. He's really popular right now. Bryce um Crawford. Crawford. Thank you. Bryce Crawford. He preached that same message that Judith Smith preached word for word, like word for word. and even the uh fluctuations and everything. Yeah. So, he got called out for um you didn't give him credit. Plagiarism. Well, no, he did. And in fact, he and Judah Smith are friends. And so, like he contacted Judah and was just like, "Hey, bro. I I stole this because I love it and like I didn't, you know, like and they're like totally one, but we live in such a cancel culture.

People just wanted to crucify him." But he like fully admitted like it's not mine. I just love it and I just wanted to share it, you know. Well, it's incredibly impactful. It is. And and if if if anyone is listening and hasn't watched it, they can just Judith Smith uh Barabus and you'll find both the short clips, the reels of it, the shorts, but then also you can find the whole message. The whole thing is good. I don't think if it's a message, we didn't listen to a whole message. It was like a threeinut didn't. Yeah, the threeminute one's the popular one. But you can go watch the whole 45 minutes. It's when he was really at um church home, but I I think even at the time it might have still been city church. It's that old at the time. So, okay. So, let me just go back just so I understand it. Worship a message on the cross, the necessity. Um and if we can

just maybe for all of us to recognize sometimes we got to come back to the basics. Yeah. I mean, if we can get so uh theologically uh entrenched as Christians, the longer you're a Christian, you can forget. And that's where we we speak of this often about the spirit of religion and um [snorts] just just the um the the problem of forgetting the childlikeness of uh I I have a need for a savior. Yes. And if you ever lose the seriousness of that Yeah. Uh you lose the depth of your relationship. Oh, for sure. It becomes all knowledge. Yeah. I try to say that on Sundays like your worship is in direct correlation to knowing what you've been saved from.

Yeah. [clears throat] You know, and there's there's Sundays, I mean, we've gotten real on this podcast. There's Sundays that I'm like, I know I've sinned. Yeah. And I know I'm forgiven, but the just the weight of like my own brokenness of like am I the right person to be on the platform preaching God's word, but then just that that worship sometimes is more intimate, real, and and great knowing that God made a way when I couldn't save myself. Absolutely. And honestly, it like we're we're going through the uh you're going through the biatitudes uh journey and um the first one is is starting with the poverty of spirit and it it really felt like it it laid the groundwork for that like I am empty. I have to empty myself of myself because I have nothing to offer God. Nothing. Yeah. And he has I'm depraved.

So, uh so Pastor Rich preaches this. Um so it's what sounds like a full message. I mean, it was the cross, the ten commandments, I am Barabbus. Yep. And then and then we took communion and it was it was I think Pastor Noah Pastor Noah was there and I think that he told me it was the most powerful experience he's ever had with communion. Wow. Um and so we took communion together. Tell me why like what what was different about the I think it was the atmosphere of the whole room. Okay. and the way uh Pastor Rich brought us into the moment and then the video and it was just like the there was a there was a I think there was a communal poverty of spirit in that moment if I'm if I could just describe it put it into like language that we were all emptied.

Wow. But the cool thing about it was like that the church, the father's house, they're they're they're so non-judgmental. They're so non- condemning that they present um the leadership and the staff and the pastors are just they present things in a way that just feels very safe in a in a positive way. Like we are all on the same playing field. I don't care how great you think you are or what you've accomplished, what you haven't accomplished, doesn't matter. We all need this. You know, I love about that what you're saying, Kara, is it reminds me of Paul's words to the church in Corenth when he explains communion, you know, the Lord's supper is he just does this massive correction to them. And it's like, guys, like what have you made this thing? Yeah. You know, like Jesus gave us this to remember him. I'm going to pass on to you what was passed on to me. But it's not about, you know, the wealthy going

first. It's not about the enjoyment of getting drunk on the wine. you know, it's it's you have made this the wrong thing. In fact, he actually rebukes them and corrects them and says, "Man, there are some of you who are sick and dying because you're not taking the authority of the cross." Yeah. Like, and you know, it's not because of the religious duty of the Lord's supper, the elements of the bread and the cup. It's you're you're not embracing what this is meant to be. Yeah. You know, this is meant to be a level playing field. No matter who you are, absolutely if you believe in Jesus, there there is an equality and a beauty of the bread, the the body broken for you and the cup, the new covenant and the forgiveness of sins. I I like what you're saying and just it really brings me back to the word. Yeah.

You know, to where I mean Paul describes that. So, how did And we Well, we took communion together, too. I was going to ask, which was really powerful. Well, did they pass plates down the rose? Is that what they did? No. So when we came in, there was buckets of just the little communion cups that have the wafer on top and the grape juice. It was nothing special. Oh wow. Um at all. In fact, it was kind of like underwhelming, but it was the sacredness of the moment. Oh, for sure. It doesn't the the Yeah, that's that's what it was. And and um Pastor Rich actually he didn't he wasn't super clear on how we were going to do it. So Oh, I we listened to it. That's what it was. We um he teed up communion and then he got off the stage and then we listened to a really powerful song. It was a Stephanie Gretzinger song. Um I don't remember the name of it, but it just I just wept through the song, too.

It was It was live or it was just No, it they just played it. They just played the song. And so we all sat there and just reflected and then he came back up and said, "I'm sorry. I don't think I made it very clear. We're going to take communion together." And then we all he he led us in in the Lord's supper. Wow. And it was really powerful. Wow. I so the scripture first 1 Corinthians 11 just verse 18 alone is like what what just struck me when you were describing it when Paul says for in the first place when you come together as a church even that like when you come together as a church I hear that there are divisions among you and it's like that's not to be I mean here we are 2,000 years later still struggling with the same thing that Paul struggled with like we are supposed to be united and we all need Jesus.

Yes. It doesn't matter who you are. Yes. You need Jesus. And I I just think it's a a powerful um reminder. Yeah. Of the importance of what Christ gave us. Yep. You know, this uh some call it a sacrament, but it's just this sacred reminder of who Jesus is. So, yeah. Is Friday night, is that how you end it? No, there's a whole other session. Okay. Wow. Okay. So, you take communion. Yeah. And then they gave us just a short break, I believe. Um and then we came back and um there was a second message and the the second piece of it. So we start with the with the cross. We start with the basics and then session two was identity and it was it was all um our identity in Christ. Okay. And it was um their youth pastor preached it, Pastor Maddie. Oh wow.

Um yeah and you know I mean she got really real about her story. I mean talk about relentlessly real. I mean, she talked about pornography, a a pornography addiction, and like she set a stage for something that was um just very vulnerable and like real like like like where people are like, "Okay, you're real." Um and we're not we're not pretending here. Yeah. Like what's the point of that? Um but it was it wasn't reckless, but it was it was real. Um and then she just she just went into just imparting the identity, you know, that we have in Christ, who we are as as children of God. And that was an important building block on top of on top of the cross. Okay. Was to know who we are in in in Jesus once we have him. Wow. Can we talk more about that together for a moment? Cuz I mean I I think this is uh the crisis of our age right there. I

mean this is why we do need the cross still. Yep. And a great awakening will always come back to Jesus. Yep. But then the greatest issue I think in our current society, our current culture is identity. Yeah. Oh, I agree. I think the enemy always takes advantage of what God created and twists it. Yes. Towards evil. Uh he's always done that. Uh you know, we're created to worship. So what does he do? He gets us to worship idols. Yep. You know, uh we're we're created for for pleasure, to enjoy God. So what does he do? We we turn into narcissistic hedeness. Yeah. You know, he create God created us with identity made in his image. So what does the enemy want to do? Literally steal identity.

Yes. I mean at the end of the day this like the last six years in America between gender uh identity issues, sexual uh identity issues. I mean it all really is theological. Yes. There's a problem is I don't know who I am in Christ. Yep. So, if your parents didn't know who they were in Christ, they're going to generationally pass on a dysfunctional Yeah. uh branding of who you are. Yeah. You know, not made in God's image, go ahead and choose it. You be you. Love is love. And all of a sudden, now we've got this entire society that has no clue who God is and then who they are. And you know, every one of our own issues, even meaning you and me personally, it always comes back down to who am I? Yeah. Yeah. You know that Romans 8, you know, am I in the flesh or am I in the spirit? Yeah.

You know, for the flesh is always death, but spirit leads to life. And uh I just I I think and she I mean she talked about um the things that we say to ourselves like I am whatever you play that in your mind, you know, I am not enough. I am stupid. I whatever whatever you want to, you know, I I am what I've done, you know, in the past. I am done to an orphan. Like yeah, whatever. Whatever. And then we replaced it with I am statements, you know, in scripture like who we are. Yeah. As children of God. Amen. Um it was really powerful. Um like did you do this out loud or? Yeah, I think we did. We did we do some I am statements out like I am I think so. Um Callie's in the room. Yeah, Kelly was with us. So I do believe we did uh we said some of them. I have my notes at home. I should have brought them. Um it was it was a good it was a

building block that we needed in order to get to where they're they took us the next day, which is you have to start with the cross and then who we are in Jesus. Okay. Um and then they he kind of they kind of set us out that night uh with the instructions to just go home and um if you're going to do anything, listen to worship music, like don't fill your mind with the world essentially is what he told us. Don't go watch, you know, some horror movie and um he made some jokes, but you know, just after all that God did. Yeah. Yeah. Make this a sacred time. I think that's so important. Kara, I I had mentioned at the second service yesterday as a pastor who preaches on the platform consistently. Just one of my greatest frustrations is uh presenting the power and the authority of God's word, people receiving it in the moment and then going back to a normal life.

Yeah. [snorts] And I really think you can lose it almost instantly through your own choices, your own habits, your own rhythms. Yeah. You know, if you don't honor God through the stewardship of what God has given you, what happens is it doesn't stick. Yep. You know, it's you it's like you get this great knowledge and revelation from God and then you go back and you throw the world into it. Yeah. It's tainted. Yeah. It's true. you know, so why would you take something so beautiful and you know, like taking pure water and then be like, well, I'm just going to put a little bit of dirt in it. You know, like a little bit of dirt's not going to kill me. Yeah. You know, was like, yeah, it won't kill you, but it also loses the the the purity and the this, you know, the um totally just what it could be. Yeah.

God can allow you to have a pure, righteous, beautiful. Yes. Holy. Amen. But we we have to have a part. We have to participate in that. It it comes down to really it's been striking me even with these biatitudes as you mentioned we're studying Sunday if we get to conversation there too. It comes down to discipline. Yeah. You know the word disciplehip and and it's deepest root is discipline. Yeah. Are you going to do what Jesus tells you to do? Are you going to do what God's word says to do or revert back to what's familiar the flesh you know Romans 7. Are you are you going to choose to uh do what the world's doing? Yep. what your emotions feel. Uh or are you going to take things to another level and say, "I I surrender that to God. I submit it to God. I'm going to go against what I feel and and go for the greater thing, you know." Amen. Amen.

So, identity was the last thing you guys left with Friday night. You go home. Yep. You didn't binge watch anything on Netflix. No, I went to bed. Okay. I was I was pretty beat. It's pretty uh exhausting when you pour out your heart. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that's just there's just something about that emotionally and spiritually when you really give it to God. I I find that uh even with pursuit nights or just in my own life. Yeah. When you really get relentlessly real with God, it's exhausting. Yeah. Uh I mean we we see that through the scriptures too. Even Jesus himself. I mean [clears throat] he would he would get tired, you know, at the well. He was tired. He would go off be alone with the father. He was tired. You know, it's like Yeah. It's hard work. It is. So, uh, you get get a good night's rest Friday.

Yep. And then we come back Saturday morning. Okay. And, um, they start with worship again, you know, like just there's nothing like worship and and praising the Lord through song. Um, so it really just sets your heart, right? It's why we do it at church, right? Like it um the presence of the Lord just always meets you. Um and so we start with worship again and then um go into session three and that was pastor Tasha and she um spoke on purity. Um so you know we go from the cross to identity to now purity and because uh this everybody's still in the room together. You guys separate guys and girls. Oh sorry that thank you. We separate at that point guys went to their own place and girls stayed. So yes so that's why we had the women speaking into us. So Tasha speaking on purity to the girls. That's correct.

And you guys are getting a pure I don't know what they got. I wasn't in it. I asked Pastor Noah that one. Um but uh he didn't share with you guys. I didn't ask. Purity as well. Well, yeah, but I don't know any specifics about it, obviously. But yes, it was definitely purity for sure. Just guys and girls are different, you know. So, um but I mean it was um it was kind of a broad overview on purity and I mean sexual purity really um and living in the the ways that God has designed sex for um within a a covenant relationship between a husband and a wife and anything outside of that anything outside of that is not God's plan. And um so she I mean she really dug into some pretty deep places. Um in that room and I think it it touched a lot of women.

Um they offered a prayer team at the end of it. There was I don't know 30 women up there um offering prayer for healing really. Yeah. Um and then whatever else you know women brought to the table for for prayer. Right. I mean really that this topic impacts probably every single person. I don't know. I mean I I I would I want to hope there's an exception and maybe there is but like every time I think that you know there there's exceptions I discover there's not. Yeah. You know and the wound sexually in such a sexualized uh society. I mean it's it's overtly everywhere. I mean we talk about it on television. It's like so hard to find anything without sex in it on on on TV series

uh in movies. And then, you know, even like I was watching the fights on Saturday night and there's a commercial because uh the fights now have commercials because of Paramount. And there's this overtly over sexualized commercial that's uh really um controversial that uh the kids were over, McKenna and um Elelliana, our are our our kids, and they were talking about the controversy of this commercial because it's it's a an actress who is like nude and uh it's for gambling. So like they're using sex to sell gambling. Of course they are. So it's it's just wild like you know and that of the the issues the controversy is not over the gambling and it's not even over the sex it's just it's about women being like used or

whatever. I'm like, we have such a dysfunction in society regarding these areas that it really does impact everyone. Even pastors, you know, uh yesterday I was watching one of those 48 hours or 2020s or date lines, whatever they are. Yeah. And it was about a pastor that killed his wife and uh come to find out he had a very very evil, gross sexualized uh life apart from the murder, you know. So he he was living in this place in space. It's like oh my goodness. Like how do you do that? But it's everywhere. It's everywhere. I mean that that of course is a grand example. But even personalized though. Well, I mean it's it's exactly what you said earlier. It's it's Satan taking what God designed for good and perverting it. It's it's it's anything that is just perverted off of God's design is is not what God has.

It's not God's best for us for so many reasons. And and what we're discovering more and more with phones and the internet and this is it's younger and younger and younger, you know, where exploration used to be 13, 14, 15, 16. Yeah. You know, into your teen years is like kids Oh, yeah. 8 9 10 11 years old. Well, it's on phones. It's wild. It's it's and and it's on phones. It's it's it's everywhere, you know? It's like such a sexualized society. So, I'm so grateful to hear you this was addressed. And then also it's not just learn about this now get healed from for sure. This whole thing was very experiential. I mean that we have to get past in in as Christians I think thinking that that Christianity is knowledge. Yeah. Knowledge is good. Yeah.

But if it doesn't go from your head into your action into your heart and then into your life it's it's me it's worthless. Yeah. It's the greatest distance is your head to your heart. Yeah. So this this is it. This was a a an experiential um weekend that was we are learning and then we're putting into practice. We are going to release. We're going to heal. We're going to have hands or people praying over us by the laying on of hands and um and release things. So, um yeah, that was a really powerful session. I I could see how that would be how how beautiful would it be for the church to heal from sexual wounds. Yes. because they're going to see individuals healed. We'll see marriages healed and eventually we'll see families healed and then parents will be even be

able [snorts] to talk about it with their children, but most parents don't because they're not healed. Yeah. They don't know how. Yeah. They don't they don't know what to do. And even I mean I can't tell you how many times Kara adult Christians so they know what the gospel is that they're forgiven of their sins. They they know they're meant to be disciples and, you know, do the word of God, but they're one of the primary sins that adults are struggling with still. I'm talking about unmarried adults is still this sexual uh dysfunction where they live together before marriage. They have sex consistently outside of marriage, you know, and you're literally setting up your long-term relationship for failure. For failure. Yeah. you're playing marriage without any company.

But here's the really cool thing I would say. Say it with this uh this life change event that I would really really love to bring to journey. Um is that um then we will that the it was it was made so beautifully clear that we can be healed. We can be we can be washed clean. That's what the blood of Jesus does. It's not too late. There there's never something there. It's you preach it all the time. you've not sinned too greatly. Like there's nothing that the blood of Jesus can't cover and start and and give us purity again. So that's the hope in it. It's not even the dwelling in what's happened. It's I'm going to give this to the Lord. I'm going to be healed from it. I'm going to release all of it. I'm going to release the memories, all of it, and I'm going to move towards um towards the life God has for me. So that's one of the most impactful things of the whole event is that um nothing it's not too late for anything.

Come on, Kara. Let let's prophesy that over our church, over this region, over our nation in Jesus' name that a generation, a new Jesus generation will discover you can be healed. You can be whole. You can have your new identity in Christ and you can be no matter what decisions you made, it doesn't matter. And today is a new God's mercies are new every morning. Amen. And there can be a restoration of your sexuality. Yes. You don't have to piece. You don't have to stay in the dysfunction of just because you screwed it up or just because someone screwed up to you. Yeah. The enemy would love for you to just linger in the dysfunction of look what was done to you. Yeah. You know, you'll never have a healthy relationship. You'll never trust the opposite sex. You'll never have a healthy relationship. No. No. You can and you will. Absolutely. And first you've got to I love this progression.

The cross identity. Now, now let's heal. Let's be whole. It's not just the spiritual side. It's the sexual side as well. So, let's let's acknowledge where what's been wrong there. Absolutely. Okay. So, uh you have a purity session. Uh people come forward and uh receive prayer. Yep. Okay. Super powerful. And then we went into another session after that. Um that was the session on forgiveness which was equally impactful. M um and it was um Pastor Dave's actually assistant gave it and she Wow. Yeah. She she told her story about just some family um family story about um just some really like hard things that they went through and that she's had to forgive and things like that. So again, it it became very personal. like they did a very good job u making people

feel like it was a safe place like like people on the stage aren't pretending like they have it together and you don't or they've been they've never been through something. Yeah. Exactly. Hey y'all are broken so let me tell you how to be. Yeah. No, it was like we are all on the same like we are humans and in the human experience comes pain comes suffering comes bad choices comes things that people do to us and then uh but God's word has so much hope. Amen. And that's where life is. Amen. Um, and so that that session was very very very powerful. So we we've talked about unforgiveness a lot even on this podcast and uh I I at church I try to bring it up often because I think unforgiveness is like it's that clog in the drain of God's grace, power, and authority. Like you

really want anointing in your life, you can't have uh unforgiveness. They they don't coincide. Yeah. And God's word is really clear. Yeah. I mean Jesus Yeah. He says if you don't forgive you're you're really not forgiven. Yeah. You're you're not embracing that reality of God's grace if you're not giving it. And it's not about like it's not even about the other person. It's about our own you releasing yourself from the prison of Absolutely. God knows what he's doing. Yeah. I mean really Yeah. It makes sense. But yet our emotions are we have this proclivity to come back to us versus uh surrender to God. you know, if I'm hurt, I feel like I have the right to hold on to that hurt and I I I don't want to release it. I mean, I I heard from someone just this weekend like they they don't know what it would be like, you know, to forgive

to to actually do that. Yeah. So, it's like I'd rather hold on to it than actually it's you're putting yourself in your own prison. Yeah. I it but you can't talk somebody into it either. I mean, you can go into the scientific medical like you're hindering your body. your blood pressure is going up, you're going to get ulcers, you're more prone to cancer. Totally. And we talked about that in that session, too, where the prayer team came and was like essentially um you know, there's healing when you forgive. Like, you can actually experience physical healing when you when you allow yourself to forgive. I I remember back in 2021 when I uh started that downward spiral of our lives. It started earlier, but in November of 2021, I I woke up with a bulged disc and chronic pain in my shoulder, my arm, my neck, and I didn't sleep for a few days. And uh and

going to the chiropractor, you know, I thought chiropractic was like witchcraft, and I was like, "What is this stuff?" You know, and going and learning about my nervous system. Yeah. Learning how our bodies physically work. And I remember a phrase, there's a book written about this and it's your body keeps score. So if you bring on stress to your body and you don't release it, you don't know how to handle it, you don't give it back to the Lord. Yeah. You carry that stress. So your shoulders get tense, your muscles get tense, your your uh everything in your body holds on. Your body keeps score. So next thing you know, you break down. Yep. and neck you get bulged discs and you get a crooked neck and you know you're all of a sudden you're you're tense in your body all because of unforgiveness.

Yeah. And you know, we've we've talked about unforgiveness before on this podcast cuz there was a season when um you preached on it. And it was actually a kind of a weird season that we were going through even as at the church. And I think that there's some type of a um a wall with with some Christians and forgiveness. Like it it's like a it almost maybe feels to to people like a um a weakness to forgive. And so it's it's like they just kind of dig their feet in the sand or in the you dig their heels in and I'm not going to forgive. Um and it's so biblically mandated and it's for our best. It's for our like it it's it's for them. Like it's for the glory of God, but it's also for our own personal like we're talking about healing. Um that there are really things that we can't be like we can't be free in a to really um I think you know live in the

in the call that God has for us if we're holding on to forgiveness. it if to bitterness or whatever. So many thoughts come to my mind, Kara. Number one is it goes back to that first session and the cross. Yeah. So you actually are um I I I I don't know how else to say it. You're desecrating the cross by holding on to unforgiveness. Yep. You you are saying I know this is I know this happened but I I refuse to embrace the to telly the the finished work of the cross. Yeah. I know my sins are atoned but I'm going to choose to sin. It really it and you know for us the confessions of a pastor as we just even think of this podcast for you and I to talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly. And really, Romans 8:28, God does work it

all for good because we love him no matter what happens. But we have had so many people hold an offense towards us. You know, I I personally, as the lead pastor of Journey Church, I've had people hold an offense against me and refuse to meet with me and yet they proclaim to be my brother or sister in Christ. They claim to believe and follow Jesus Christ. And yet that wall you referred to, they refuse the fullness of scripture. Yeah. It's it's it's flatout defiance, disobedience to being a disciple. Yeah. And so we live in a culture now where you just talk about the breakdown of of the biblical Christianity. We've got identity issues, we've got sexual issues, and we've got unforgiveness issues. Oh, for sure. Unforgiveness. All of these are in the church.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're all they're probably all equally rampant. Yeah. I mean, equally pervasive, equally destructive. All of us uh have the the tendency to struggle with one or all of them. Yeah. Totally. Yes. For sure. We got to keep coming back. Yes. Okay. So, unforgiveness, what happened at this session? Yeah. So, then once again, um they had a prayer team came up at the end of it and the instructions were really clear. It was like, I'm not going to, you're not going to come up here and get prayed over like like I hope you forgive this person or prayed over over anything specific, you know? It's you're going to come to the front to the prayer team and you're going to come with with a a person in mind that you need to forgive and and we're going to forgive and

release. We're going to forgive that person and we're going to release it like that. Um I mean, yeah. Is it required of everyone to do? Absolutely not. It's not required at all. Okay. It's not required. No. No. It would the prayer team was not required. They were there and available. I mean, you have to be willing, you know, you have to want to come and Yeah, I I see what you're saying. Yeah. Yeah. Um, did you go up? [laughter] I did not. Okay. No, [clears throat] but the Lord the Lord did work with me on a lot of forgiveness in that moment. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I for me it wasn't I I don't know how relentlessly real. It wasn't like one. It wasn't just one. Yeah. I mean I I probably went up seven. What? I went up to seven. Oh, you did went up with seven, she said. Yeah. Oh, I was too shy to do that. I I probably went through in my own heart. Probably 10. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. No, I appreciate the reality real cuz you know, you and I talk about even people who have really hurt us here. Yeah. Whether it's people that have uh we've worked with on staff really close, people who are friends and uh and then you go through and forgiveness is it's here's what's unique about it. I'm just processing from me personally is like it's not just like a formula, you know, like and I'm but but there is but but there is something in in being um uh sure that you're going to release it. It's not a formula, but they made it so simple. Yeah. Um it it it was a hey, this this person has maybe done this to me. I'm going to release it and forgive them. There's forgiveness in the moment. I I guess what I just there's a lot of people I've you know like even I tell my story all the time. My dad walked out on me when I was two, you know. You know,

how many times have I forgiven my dad? A thousand times, you know, and uh I do know like there was a point of healing right when I became a a Christian where I I've released off any type of um I I do think there was almost an immediate healing there, but I still throughout my life keep coming back to those kind of things. Then you talk about like staff that we've worked with. I mean, you and I have talked about this like is am I harboring any unforgiveness there? Because and I think the uniqueness of it is you can be released entirely and you can forgive, but the reminder and the wounds and and how that caused um pain or brokenness is still real, you know. And so it's like you can forgive and release, but then also have that reminder. And I think you know part of uh the living hope of Jesus is is is moving on

is moving towards growth and not dwelling not um sharing not coming back to the 100% agree. One of the things that just I'll in vulnerability you know in the last few weeks the Lord has been working with me on in my own heart and my life is not to look back. Wow. So like so good. Yeah. Which means to me in in our in the current culture that we live in is unfollowing some people. It's and it's not to be rude. It's like I have to put this behind me in for my own soul. Yeah. It's boundaries. And I think that's really important that we actually take that serious. Yeah. You know, Jesus talked to his disciples and said, "If you go into a town and and say shalom, you you offer peace and they don't receive it, shake off the dust and move on." Like you don't need to let someone rob your peace. you don't

need to let someone abuse you, you know, like so the equivalent for me in this day is probably social media, you know, it's I'm shaking the dust off. It's not cuz I don't want to love you or I don't love you, but for my own soul, I have to. Yeah, I I' I've done the same thing. I mean, I've shared that with you as well, like, you know, realizing like, you know, on on Facebook or more recently, people who have betrayed me, lied about me, gossiped about me, and yet they're still my friends on Facebook. It's like, wait, first of all, what an oxymoron irony. You're not you're not my friend. No. You know, and secondly, you've you've never uh reconciled or asked for forgiveness. I'll forgive you, but I don't need to give you access to my life. Yeah. And that's what the Lord started working with me on before we even got to this thing was weeks ago was like, you it's it's like Lot's wife.

She looked back and turned into a pillar of salt, you know, like it's time to move on. Dr. Andrew says, uh, the, uh, the windshield is much larger than the rearview mirror, you know, and so, [clears throat] uh, you know, that rearview mirror is there. You can look, it's small, but what's ahead of you, so much bigger, and like that that's your main scope of vision is is what am I what am I going towards? And the enemy wants nothing nothing more than to keep us in the place of our rearview mirror being huge and our windshield being tiny. Right? That's what he wants. And if you if you're only staring at the windshield, you'll crash. Yeah. You know, cuz you won't even see what's in front of you. You won't move around the obstacles that need to be moved around. And Yeah. You know, and I just want to even clarify, you know, when I talk about uh unfriending someone on social media or

or whatnot. Uh and I I've joked, you know, like when I make a a short video for Journey or or whatnot, [laughter] you know, promoting our our own personal church that we lead, I'll often say, "Hello, friends and enemies." Yeah. And some people have like, why would you say enemies or what's up with that? Well, because the truth is Jesus talks about us having enemies. Yeah. And we're going to get to that, you know, later even in the biatitudes when he says, "Blessed are those who persecute you uh for my name's sake. Blessed are you who are persecuted for righteousness sake." And Jesus talks about in this sermon on the mount to pray for those who persecute you. Jesus specifically, love your enemies. You know, the world says that we we love our neighbor, but Jesus goes further and says, "No, you don't just love your neighbor. Anybody can do that.

Anybody could do that. Your enemy could do that. Pagans could do that." But the reality is, I do have enemies. And I love my enemies. I pray for my enemies. And I even just acknowledge cuz I know if they're watching these videos cuz the weirdness of it, sometimes they stalk, [laughter] you know, like what God is doing. and the weirdness of like, all right, I don't know why you're watching me, but I'm just going to go ahead and say hi to you. Yeah. Hello, friends and enemies. So, that's the backstory of for those that don't know that. I know you know that, but I'm just confessing that to the world is we certainly have enemies. Hey, this might seem like a commercial, but don't skip over this. Kingdom Conference, it's time. A new great awakening. [music] There are moments in history where there's a stirring from God, something special, and you don't want to watch, you want to be a part of what God's doing. That's Kingdom Conference. It's coming in November. So, don't miss this.

Sign up today. Encounter God. Be a part of what God's doing. I'll see you there. So, uh, the unforgiveness session, coming back, fullness to the cross, identity, purity, unforgiveness, releasing through. Is that the last session? Uhuh. There was one more. Wow. Nope. That's a lot. Two. Well, I guess kind of two. It was like two in one. Um, okay. So, yep, we did that. Um, cried a lot. Okay. went through that whole process. More some more. Okay. Yeah. I cried a lot in that that whole I think it's why I came home. I was like don't talk to me. Nobody talked to me. I want to say you know um the beatitude we studied this previous Sunday was blessed are those who mourn and you know the scriptures say so much about mourning, grieving and sorrow even tears. And one of the things I read

about tears and you know it's so hard for me Kara in 45 minutes to talk about a lifetime of like healing of like there there is healing and release in tears. It grieving is actually God's way of of moving on that if you don't cry, if you don't mourn, if you don't acknowledge the pain of what you're feeling, you actually don't fully heal. So I'm really blessed to hear you say this because I studied it last week. You know, there's a reason God allows us to cry. And so for uh men and women who never cry and oppress, I just don't feel it. I don't feel it. Well, we need to pray for God to release that damn because there's a great healing on the other side of those tears. Yeah. You know, and I I So, I'm actually really encouraged to heal hear this today, you know, cuz I do think there is a um a healing that comes with tears.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally like quite a lot. I think I do think I experienced some healing. Wow. Um so then after that session they we they had lunch for us. Okay. So we went and ate. Um no it was like sandwiches. Okay. Um and then it was pretty quick though. They gave us about 25 minutes for lunch and then we came back to the final sessions and the first one they may have started with worship. I actually don't remember. But then the the first one was um just uh it was their small groups or community life, you know, type um director and he came and gave everybody next steps. I mean everybody from cuz some people got saved the first night. So it was like [snorts] if you just got saved like this is your next step like you know take this take um take the essentials class, go through discover um

get into a community group, get on a serve team, you know like all the things. Um he touched on giving a little bit on generosity and it was that was it was very intentionally planned, right? So like you've gone to this far. This is you. I'm not going to leave you hanging. This is your next steps. And then from there then it was the final session and it was like the quirkiest old guy. Don't have a clue who he is or what he does at the church. But he was Kelly says he reminds he reminds her of you in like 30 years [laughter] cuz he was hilariously funny and didn't even try to be [laughter] I know. Um he was really quirky. Uh reminds me of you and but he clearly had some stuff to impart to the room. Okay. So the last session is on the Holy Spirit and specifically speaking in tongues. Wow.

Um yeah. Uh so he went I mean he did like a 20 or 30 minute teaching like he started with he was a teenager in the um with what was it? The Jesus movement. The Yeah. In that era. Uh he probably lived in Southern California. [snorts] He probably lived in Southern California is my guess. I don't remember if he said that specifically, but he said that he um he got saved in somewhere. Do you remember? Was it at a church or did he give details on where he got saved like by himself? At home? Oh, maybe it was at home. He said he he said it was literally the atmosphere. It was such a revival like great awakening atmosphere. The spirit was just pouring out. And so he gets saved in his room. He's like 16. speaks in tongues for an hour after he gets saved. Wow. And then um and then goes on on to essentially give this huge discourse on um all like the the scientific like health reasons of speaking in tongues.

He gave he gave a huge um Cali printed it out actually. He Yeah, I saw on her desk um cuz we got the notes after. He gave and then he also gave this huge discourse and um argument for for scripturally speaking in tongues. all of the different references all over scripture to tongues. Um and um so he went through all of that and then um Pastor Joseph came up and essentially led he he asked who wants to be essentially baptized in the Holy Spirit but with evidence of speaking in tongues and asked for people to come up and the whole like I didn't I didn't look back cuz I we were in the very front so we were like involved in all that. I didn't look back to see how many people did not come up, but a huge amount of people came up to the front of the room and um and oh, you know, I

missed a whole section. I missed a whole section. Well, okay. I didn't even the renouncing section. Yeah, let me back up. Was that before lunch after forgiveness? Okay, I'm sorry. Can I back up for a second? So, part of forgiveness is renouncing and announcing, right? Yes. Yes. Exactly. Okay. I missed a whole. That's okay. Nobody Nobody knows. But now I was like, but this wasn't Let's go backwards. Yeah. Thank you. [snorts] This renouncing was a huge part of the day. Like lengthwise, it wasn't that long, but it was really, really, really powerful. So, okay. So, they had us they right before lunch, they we did this like renouncing lies, renouncing. So they had us um they they gave they uh hand out essentially to everybody and

everybody all of the essentially all of the things like sins all all the things and they're categorized. There's sexual stuff, there's emotional um all the different things are categorized. So they gave us all a handout and said this is not going to go to anybody. This is for you and you alone. Um uh in fact you can burn it afterwards. Actually they said at their old campus when they were they've been doing this for 16 years. At their old campus they used to burn it. They used to put have people put it in a burn like a bonfire and burn it. Yeah. Um but it was just setting the stage for the renouncement piece. So like you go through and check mark which physically check the things that you need freedom from essentially. Um and so get real. Yeah. What do you want to be free from? Yeah. Yeah. I mean all all kinds of things like emotional things you know like like believing certain lies over yourself,

addictions, like all the things are there. Wow. And um sexual things. And anyway, so that set the stage for then the next you know the people that would that came up. There were two this and this is still se we're still separate from guys and girls. Oh so this is back in the purity one. Okay. Yes. So well it was purity forgiveness and then renouncement all in one before we came back together. Guys and girls are separate for the whole thing. Yeah. So, with the um renouncing one, did they go into even things like generational like uh cults and you know, maybe things that are spiritual but not biblical or you know of God. Okay. I my takeaway from it was um they they probably could have gone into it a little bit deeper. It was pretty quick. Okay. But yes, they did occult things, um generational things, they definitely did. Um and maybe it needed to be quick.

I don't know. I mean, maybe it was just a um uh and they did it by section. So, they went back and forth between two women who led the whole thing and they started um with like I don't remember what maybe they started with sexual sins, I don't know. And then um and then went through them and led the all the people in the room through renouncing those things and they turned up the music really loud. So, it got it was worship, you know, it was like break every chain. There was a um what a god you know worship songs were powerfully played in the background while people out there while people are renouncing these things. So it's like hey go ahead and shout it if you want to shout scream it if you need to scream it say it if you need to say it. Yep. Yep. They went through every single one of them. We renounced all the things. Um and then we went into this

last session that I that I started to tell you about. So that was a really powerful experience. I've never been a part of something like that. That's like communal um powerful naming all of the things that we're all um they you know strong they're strongholds that that we have strongholds over that I mean we're just give we're like you like you we're shouting into the room. We're giving we're releasing them and giving them to the Lord and praying that in a moment we can be broken of things like addictions and things like that. Um, I mean, I'm I don't think it's I there's a lot of biblical precedents like you mentioned the biblical precedence for tongues. Yeah. You know, if if you want to see biblical examples of it, John 11, even

as I preached this weekend about Jesus wept, he prayed to the father. And then it says he cried aloud, you know, and there are, you know, even the [clears throat] word wept in John 11 is is an uncontrolled, you know, Jesus himself was weeping, but then he cried out. Like we we often think of Jesus as what Hollywood has um you know uh yeah painted yeah has described for us in our imaginations but think about Jesus out loud Lazarus come out. Yeah. you know, he he's proclaiming the promise and and not in a um we we've just made I think often times and I'm generalizing it's not everything all the time, every church, but we've

made church so predictable and safe and uh secure. I mean, I I I said this yesterday at church, I sometimes wish there was more weeping. Yeah. You know, I sometimes you hear it more in the African church where it's like the God, the Holy Spirit is dealing with something and you there's wailing, there's moaning, there's groaning, there's you you you sense in the spirit, but then like we've taken Paul's words about a controlled environment in church and a church of order and we have made it in a western cultural understanding. Yeah, I totally I agree with you. And one of the things that that they talked about too is like this this is we are we are prophesying and proclaiming promises of God. Promises in scripture over our lives. This is not like woo woo. Yeah. Stuff that is that has no foundation.

Like these are promises of God that we're claiming. Yeah. I mean, I know like in some of our deepest moments, Kara, like when we've dealt with our own stuff, whether it's our marriage or uh our family, you know, when I go into prayer, you know, and you and I are weeping or I've had to pray. It's like that's what I typically end up having to do is just Yeah. is scream God's promises. I don't know what else to do outside of saying I will proclaim what I know is true and that's where I'll go. You know, it doesn't I don't It's not eloquent prayers. It's not like I know what this looks like. It's I know what God's word says and I'm just going to cry it. I'm gonna shout it. Yeah. We've done it over our children. Amen. Over our marriage.

Yeah. I've done it over our house. I've done it by myself. I've, you know, uh Okay. So, this is good stuff. So, uh come back to the tongues. So yeah, there's a great uh preaching and teaching on what scripture says about this. A testimony. Here's what happened to me as a teenager. Pastor Joseph comes up, invites people to come forward. You said there's a massive group. You left us hanging. So that the the guys and the girls were back together at that point. So this was Yeah. Okay. So everyone's up front. [laughter] Uh tell me about this. So the worship So the worship team obviously there there's worship going on. Okay. And um I don't remember exactly how they let it. Do you remember? Basically, if you want to receive the gift of tongues, go up front. Yeah.

And just start speaking it. And our ministry team is weaving in and out to confirm for you and help guide you through it. So if you want to be baptized in the spirit and if you would like to have the the language and of of speaking in tongues, come up and come up and do this. And then there was weaving in Yeah. Open your mouth. Open your So, Pastor Joseph essentially he did um lay the groundwork for it which was you have to take a step of faith. You have to open your mouth like like this does involve a a step of faith. And so he teed that up and then that's what and then then the whole group came up and worship was going on. The prayer team is kind of weaving in and out and praying over people and um people are getting a prayer language. It was crazy. Was it uh Well,

tell me about the environment. Was it loud, wild, weird? It wasn't weird. Okay. No, there was nothing weird about it, but it was it was loud. Yeah. Um there was and the worship was loud and you know, everybody's heart was just so pure from what I could feel, you know, it was just a very pure environment. Yeah. Um, and from what Pastor Joseph asked at the end of the day was like, "Did everybody that came up that wanted to get the gift of tongues? Are you speaking in tongues?" Pretty sure everyone said yes. Like they raising. Yeah. Nobody confirmed you. I had like that awkward like, "I still need Yeah. And the guy that came. So, so Cali, you came forward and and then when they asked that, you were like, they first asked, did everybody that came up and wanted it, were you confirmed by a prayer team member and like prayed over? Okay. And you were not?

Nobody came yet. But then Benny came, right? That was his name. Yeah. Yeah. That was like radiating heat. The first thing he said to me and then Pastor Tasha was like, "There's some of you in here like radiating heat." Oh, wow. Okay. So, you were being confirmed prophetically that God was doing something in you. I I'm repeating just because you don't have a microphone. So, and then what happens? So, someone someone comes and prays with you of faith. He's like, "Okay, I'm gonna start praying in tones to open your mouth and start praying." So, it put Okay. It's it's like a So, prayer warrior starts speaking in tonesues with you. And so, and then you just now it's up to you spirit and then we pray together for a couple minutes and then like, "Girl, you got it. You're speaking like you areing straight to the Lord." You did. Yeah. And I was that whole time. Did And did you not know it? You didn't?

I don't know. There's like you want your flesh wants like someone else like I'm sure you're familiar with what other people's maybe tongue sound like. And yours is different and so Yeah. And they were super the insecurity of it could be a syllable. It could be a word like just start like open your mouth. Yes. So so I mean the very premise and idea that you're praying something that no human can interpret. There's an interpretation of tongues. Yes. Yes. And then of course the tongues could mean an an actual language. Uh Spanish, uh Greek, uh Hebrew, you know, that that could be tongues. And then there's a third one, which is this language we're talking about. No one knows but God himself. You don't know it. No one around you knows it, but you're simply ministering to the Lord, interceding to the Lord in a in a in a

way that uh like Paul talks about. Uh so so you ended up getting it, Cali. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. But you're saying 100%. But the part of you was like it's not not what I expected. No, just the I've never experienced anything like this. You've never experienced anything like this. I wanted it and I didn't want my want to trespass or like Yeah. step over wanted to get Okay. Yeah. And that you know that that's the sacredness and the um mystery of a relationship with God. Yeah. is you can't always self-predict uh how and what God's going to do. Whether it's it's through healing, uh anointing, uh encounters, powerful moments, uh you can read the scriptures,

uh you can be obedient and disciplined, but then when God shows up, your story is not someone else's story. Totally. You're not the 16-year-old that got an encounter and prayed in tongues for an hour, or you're not the, you know, everyone's story is unique. Exactly. Yeah. Uh, well that that sounds powerful. Yeah, it was. It was incredibly powerful. And was that the end of the weekend? That was it. Went home. That was just we just walked outside like everything's normal. Wow. I know. Wow. I know. Yeah. Well, I I'll tell you, for me, it's good to catch up. I know we've spent uh at least an hour talking about this. I know. Um I've been just uh in anticipation wondering how the heck was your weekend, Kara? You know, and we're just kind of we're both so busy. uh just between our two lives and everything

that we're doing and just to hear the impact this had on you and I know for certainty we're going to be bringing this to journey and we'll make it our own. I mean they've even said the impact they feel they feel it tangibly the next day on a on Sunday because so many people have been set free so many people are are um you baptized in the spirit like like you they just they just it's a different atmosphere the Sunday after. So I I mean what if if it's meaning that meaningful to us, why would we not want to bring it to freedom to other people? Absolutely. I mean there are certain moments like that at journey even like you know the the Sunday after a rooted celebration. Yeah. There's like how awesome was that? The testimonies we saw, you know, how awesome was the baptisms, you know, it's like they're definitely it's for the

edifying of the church. these momentum builders that we get to see God continue to work through. And you know, I I even said it on Sunday like if God can do it in me, he could do it in you. It's just this reminder that God wants to set everyone free. He does. He wants freedom for everyone. The enemy doesn't. So the enemy wants to leave us in our shackles, in our prison, in our own prison cells because there's that that causes death. He wants death. It causes death on so many levels. for everyone. It will never get old until we're with God in glory. That everyone needs the hope of Jesus Christ. Yes. And it's it's not that the hope is not just a, you know, a salvation just like a hey, I'm going to get into heaven one day. Like there's it's so much more than

that. And that's what I think the the um American Christian church is has fallen short of. um really discipling people into what it actually looks like to walk with Jesus, to live in freedom with Jesus, to have a a meaningful and impactful life, to have it impact generations. And it's it's what I've loved so much about about our relationship with this church in in, you know, in Vakavville that they have shown me personally what it looks like to um have a a living, breathing, dynamic relationship with the Lord. Kara, why do you think the church in general, without going there, why do you think we fall short of that uh in America? Well, I think a couple reasons. Cultural, it's cultural. We're very contained people.

We don't if we show emotion, it's weakness. And there's and and it's not it's not about emotion, but like we're just we like predictability. We liked we like to be in control. Um, but then there's this other piece of that where they're like the the Pentecostal movement, there's some weirdness in it. Like it's it's some of it is weird. And so that hasn't been maybe stewarded the best either. So then you combine these things and it's so easy to go to to to to play it safe. Yeah. Because we don't want to we don't want to do something that's not of the Lord. We don't want to be weird, you know. Um and some people have a fear of that, like, well, wait a second. I've never heard of this. I've never experienced this. So I if I do this, what's going to happen? I mean, we experienced that fear the last four or five years of journey

as we started to take God's word more serious holistically and put spiritual gifts into practice, not just tongues, but uh healing and prophetic words and words of knowledge, all the gifts that we see fully. And there's tons more, too. But there is a fear. I mean, I saw it in people and and it it that fear produces angst. and it's almost like they want to defend an old way, which is not necessarily a biblical way, but they'll go read books outside of the Bible to argue why we shouldn't do those things in church. And there's a variety of reasons why. They've probably had a bad experience or they've only been taught something, you know, which is probably not the whole experienced it or or or they've seen the abuse of it. Yes. You know, I mean, I was joking before we even started the podcast today, like I've seen comments regarding my sermon clips like, "Oh, that guy's

selling snake oil." Or, you know, it's like there the the outside world is if there's power and authority on that, it's just it is going to get weird really fast. It's going to get unbiblical. Well, that's one thing that I've loved about the father's house, too, is like it's not weird. They don't make it weird. It's not weird. These things are scriptural. They're in the Bible. The Lord gives us gifts to for the edification of the body and like it's nothing. The enemy wants nothing more than to hold us back from that because then the body is not being edified. Now we are a lifeless powerless church. It reminds me of um Jesus when he sent out the disciples. I think it's in Matthew 11 when they're amazed because they actually I think they they thought it might have been um I think it's Matthew 11. Um where he sent out the disciples and uh oh maybe it's not

Matthew 11. Uh we're going to have to look up the reference, but he sends out the disciples and they cast out demons and they heal the sick and they're amazed. They're like, "This is crazy." Yeah. I mean, for them it was weird because they went from like being fishermen and tax collectors and ordinary people to they have the authority they never had before and they're coming back to Jesus. We did it. Yeah. We did what you told us to do. Like you we did what you did. Cast out demons, heal the sick. And Jesus like listen he he like normalized it and said don't be excited about that. You should be excited that your name is written in the [clears throat] lamb's book of life. You know, like you should be excited that God knows your name and you get to spend each salvation is even greater than healings and deliverance of demons and those things should be normal in the kingdom life and we should operate in that.

We need to normalize those things in kingdom living. Yeah. But, you know, I think there's also a a section of the church that is just very um academic and educated and doesn't want to um take it from here to here. Take it from the head to the heart cuz it it it involves um it involves vulnerability. Yeah. And surrender. Yeah. And th those are hard things as Americans. Those are really hard things. Like they are. And the longer you don't put them into practice, uh, the more you have the the muscle memory of, uh, you know, your your mind, your heart, your soul, of who you are, how you do things, and what that looks like. And God is in the business of transformation. He he just doesn't leave us the same ever.

No, none of us. To the day of your death. Agreed. Agreed. And I I really think it's it's the stance that we've, you know, taken now for a lot of years is like it you don't it's word and spirit. It's both. It's both. Come on. It's both. You cannot have one without the other. Amen. Like the uh the guy the the guy at the end, the Holy Spirit guy, do you remember what he said? If if it's if you're all word word without spirit, you blow up. You blow up. Spirit of the word, you dry up. Yep. Yep. Okay. And the word and spirit, you grow up. You grow up. Yeah. That's so weird because so I I I just referenced to the executive team just what God's put in my heart for 2027. And it was exactly what you just texted that morning that so yeah so if you if you have all spirit

without the word you blow up well you blow up and it it does become weird it's it's emotionalism it's erratic it's um there there is no control because it's all hyper spiritual because all you have is spirit whereas if it's all word it really is this legalism I mean the phrase dry up is appropriate because there is no life in it there's There's um the it's literally the gospel with no joy, which that's not good news. No. You know, and so you that's why we have grumpy Christians. We have a lot of them. Let's be honest. Mean Christians. They're so focused on doctrine that they're not focused on deliverance. And it's not deliverance. And it's not doctrine. It's both. And like why can't we have people set free and grow in the knowledge of the word of God?

We can. You know, that's the way of Jesus. Amen. Because Jesus still is the way, the truth, and life. There still is only one way. And he is the truth. And we should study the word. And the beginning of of wisdom is the fear of the Lord. So let's go there. Let's go to deeper places. Let's get into the word of God. Let's So I I as we consider 2027, I don't know what that's going to look like, but I believe God has taken the church to deeper places that we would get into the word more, but not just get into the word. We would take the spirit of the living God and allow God to work through us, lead us, fill us. And you know, there's something just really powerful about a new revelation. I don't mean I don't mean don't take that wrong. I mean a revelation. I'm not taking it wrong. You're talking to our enemies. They're going to twist your words. Exact. And that's I have a hyper sensitivity to that. That is why I I said that after I said I'm not talking

about new scripture. I'm talking about a new revelation of what what Jesus has done for us of what it looks like to walk with him. Um when we when we get uh our our world just just like explodes with hope when we live in that. This is called new wine. And Jesus talks about this. You can't put new wine in old wine skins. No. You need to allow God to do something new. And he there's nothing wrong with that. I've been prophesying that over somebody in our church right now. A new season. God constantly works in seasons. And when the old season's gone, you don't go back to the old. A new season has come. God talks about singing a new song. Nothing's wrong with singing a new song. God constantly is doing something new.

And so I I I understood right away what you meant by a new revelation. I I have some PTSD because there's there's lots of enemies out there. I guess people and and to the to the person that's watching that would criticize that, repent. repent of your your religious spirit that wants to critique and criticize. It's like me joking about uh diabetes, you know, it's like, okay, could we just uh can we take things in context? Yeah. Uh can we not uh hold things against one another? Can we be openhanded? Yeah. And can we hug a little more and uh can we just take God at his word? Yeah, I I didn't find that reference I was trying to find earlier, but someone can find it for me. Uh, and we can do it outside of this podcast. But I do think God's calling us into operating with the

authority of Jesus to do what he did and and to recognize the greatest miracle of all is that he loves us and he's he saved us. and writes our name in the lamb. It comes back to the cross. You know how how we started this podcast off which is you know we've all broken the law and if we are going to try [clears throat] to save ourselves by the law uh it's too big of a burden. We can't that yoke is too heavy and so break that yoke. Yoke to Jesus. Yeah. Just acknowledge acknowledge that we need a savior. Amen. It starts [clears throat] there. Let's go. You know like cut the pride you know like we all need a savior. Amen. And I I hope today and just us processing the weekend that you just experienced. Maybe someone would get an impartation today to say, I don't want to stay the same. Maybe you need to just write down the renouncing of uh what things are you holding on to that aren't

of God and confess them and then move on. Yep. Uh and and it's not just confess them and move on. Uh uh receive from God who he is, the promise of God. You are a beloved child of God. Uh you you have a calling upon your life. You you've received every promise of God is yours. They are yes and amen. Every promise of scripture is yours. You have a great inheritance. So, uh renouncing, I pray that today they would receive that. The healing of purity. Someone doesn't need to stay in their past. They can be healed of those things. Uh forgiveness. Uh who do you need to forgive today, friends? Uh maybe God brought somebody to mind. You just heard Kara forgave 10. Callie forgave [laughter] seven. Somebody needs to forgive somebody here today. And if you made it this far in the podcast, I I believe the Holy Spirit doesn't want to leave us in that space, in the place of unforgiveness. And I'm just I'm loving

what God's doing. We didn't really get a chance to speak about the biatitudes, but I I believe today we've had a healthy good conversation, Kara. And uh the biatitudes are found in Matthew chapter 5. So if you haven't joined us on Sundays, you should get into God's word because man, the power of what God wants to do through us. I I'm just I'm watching this progression. Kara, poor in spirit, mourning, and this week, do you know what the third biatitude is? Uh does the Bible say it's humility, right? Humble. Uh meek. Yeah. So, you're so close. I think my Bible says humble. Oh, okay. The new reading the new living right now. Oh, that's fun. But I like meek. Uh yeah, humble, meek. And they they really do mean one and the same is that that uh transition of of the original Greek to the English.

But to understand that once you know you're poor spirit, once you mourn, you have a humility about you. Yeah. You have you have a weakness. You can't not. Yeah. And and with someone who walks around with arrogance, Yeah. they got to be a little more point at the beginning. They build on each other. So that that pride of I've got it figured out. I I don't need uh uh to surrender my all to God or or or operate under the authority of the um the Holy Spirit. I I just would say it just comes back to these progressions. So, uh it it's been a good thing and uh here we are. We're going to leave in a week for the Holy Land. Uh tell me uh as we're getting ready. I know there's a lot of stress of things that need to get done, bags that need to be packed, but let's just say what's one thing you're looking forward to? We're going to be

gone for 2 and 1/2 weeks. Yeah. So, uh, 16 days we'll be gone. Uh, tell me what's one thing you're just Man, we're going to go to the Holy Land. We're going to go to, uh, Rome. Uh, the same place Paul went to. Yeah. What What are you looking forward to? Uh, just a new perspective, I think. Amen. That's great. In general, like again, new perspective. I I feel like we're in a new season. I I'm looking forward to new perspective. I'm looking forward to like walking where Jesus walked. I mean, how special is that? Amen. Um just just seeing seeing things from a new lens. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. What are you looking forward to? I'm looking forward to doing that with you. Uh I just I love when we get to do it together. Like you know, you had to just explain to me your weekend. Yeah.

I tell you in life it's a lot better when we do things together and I don't have to get the impartation of what you went through. I get to go through it with you. And that's my dream for all of us together is that more people go to the Holy Land. more people would go to church so we don't have to tell them what happened in church and more people would get to encounter this. I believe God wants us as a church body to go through this stuff together. And so I'm so looking forward to waking up uh in uh Galilee with you. I'm so looking forward to waking up in Jerusalem with you and uh going to these uh holy sites together like you said, the places Jesus walked and talked and so uh how cool is that? And then we'll come back and then we'll tell people about it and then you'll join us on our next journey to the Holy Land because

I've already had people ask when we're going again. I think 2028 as we look at 2027, I'm not sure we'll be able to squeeze it in. I really would like to um go to Uganda next year. Yep. And so if I'm going to lead the trip, I'll probably say it's 2028, but if not, um, somebody else can lead it next year. Um, but it's worth going to. And, uh, Yamapur started yesterday, the day of atonement, the most holy day for the Jews, for us. We can look at the sacredness and seriousness of that and say that is Jesus. He is the lamb that was slain for the atonement of our sins. And we pray for the Jewish people to know uh, Jesus as Messiah, Hamashiach. Uh you and I have talked about uh Rashana um the Jewish new year and just as we're looking at all of these

these things aligning Christ is coming uh this I don't want to start a whole another podcast right now uh but the feast of trumpets is coming I mean we're just talking we friends we should Is the feast of trumpets happening while we're there? Uh I think so. I think so too. I don't know when that happens. Let's just ask Siri real quick and then we'll pray and end our time. When is the feast of trumpets 2026? Well, she didn't answer me. Let's see. A feast of trumpets comes. Come on, everybody. Uh oh, we already missed it. It was September 11th through September 12th. So, clearly we don't know our Jewish calendar. Uh we're just on this journey learning these things and that new revelation and deeper understanding of

the things of old, how they still tie into today uh is amazing. So, uh, Kara, how about I I pray us out and, uh, let let let's believe God's best. Freedom is coming to Journey Church and in 2027, we will have our own life change weekends. Uh, these events that give you an opportunity to be released and set free. So, we sent this team down, not just so they would experience it, but they'd bring it back so that you all could experience it as well. So, hey, join me in prayer. God, we thank you that you don't leave us the same. We thank you for the finished work of the cross, Jesus. That although we may have sinned and separated ourselves from you, you made a way where there was no way. You took our sin on the cross. You who was without sin took our sin. So for that, we thank you, Lord, that while we were sinners, you died on the cross for our sins. Jesus, thank you, son of God, for doing what needed to be done. We thank you that you not only defeated death, but you defeated sin and you

overcame the enemy so that we could live with you forever. So we thank you for the finished work, Jesus. And now I just pray today that we would operate under the fullness of what that means, the healing, the uh the authority, the power uh of of of the Holy Spirit in us. So Lord, we pray for your church to be unleashed for such a time as this. That Jesus, we take you at your word that we would know the full council of scripture from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22. We pray for a church that take what your word seriously and operate under the authority of your Holy Spirit. So God, we thank you for this time today just to hear a little bit of Kara's story, how how you impacted her and a little bit of Callie's story. And now we just say, God, would you use our stories for your good and for your glory? We pray for revival in our generation. For a new Jesus movement unlike any Jesus movement that's ever happened before. We pray for

a new great awakening, Jesus, that even if we don't feel it, see it, and experience it right now, we believe it's coming, Lord. Uh because we believe that Jesus, you are coming soon for so we're praying for revival for your church right now, Jesus. Awaken the church in America, God. That we would repent of our sins that we would heal of those things that we've done wrong or that were done to us. That God, we would we would get to experience the restoration of families. We would get to see a church on fire for you, Lord Jesus. And we would get to see them now. So Lord, we thank you for this time get today. Would you bless every listener today that God would grow even closer to you? May they get in your word and get new revelation, a spirit of revelation and wisdom from you, Holy Spirit. Teach them your word. I ask in Jesus name. Amen. And amen and amen. God bless you all. Hey, go speak in tongues in Jesus name.

[laughter] See you next time.