Could Men Be The Solution To A Move Of God?

This is Confessions of a Pastor, a relentlessly real peak behind the scenes of Journey Church in Bend, Oregon. From church in a strip club to a strip mall, going where Jesus would go to reach people Jesus would reach. This is the good, the bad, and the ugly. All for the glory of God. A journey of misery and miracles. We are your hosts and the founders of Journey Church in Ben. I'm Pastor Keith. And I'm Pastor Kara. Come on. There really is hope for everyone. Hey, it's that time. Confessions of a pastor. And I brought back my boys in this place. My wife couldn't be back with me, so I've got Pastor Brandon. I got Pastor Connor in this place. Like, this is just a teaser towards something we've been teasing for a little while. People don't even know. Talk on literally. Am I not supposed to talk about this? No. You know what? You know what, PK?

Go there. We're talking about the ER. That's what I'm talking about. Okay, that sounds scary. Yeah. Yeah. Tell us tell us what that means. Well, er is just this idea of the edify room that that there needs to be some more edification in this place. Oh my gosh. And people may not know what edify means, but the church is good at bringing down, but we need to start building up. Come on, somebody. I am honored to have you guys as special guests once again. Pastor Kara couldn't join us today. She's getting some Botox and bigger lips. Let's go, somebody. So, uh, that's just a joke. You will be so happy to hear. This is Confessions of a Bastion. a joke cuz she doesn't need that. I got the most perfect wife and I man I feel I feel bad for those people that actually have to get that cuz I actually have never seen somebody look better with her.

You know what we should do right away is let's just alienate people. I'm sorry. It's confessions of a pastor. I didn't know we can't get real. We totally can. You know, can we debate and no cuz this is us. This is our world. We're laughing all of the time. I'm just saying I got the kind of wife that wakes up beautiful. So, she doesn't need to go do none of that stuff. She She's actually taking care of finances. So, um that that's what's happening. I did this morning cuz I did not sleep at all cuz of the baby. And I came in and I said to Hannah, I was like, "You guys, I look so puffy. I'm going to be so ugly on camera." We should have done an ice roller and maybe a little bit of little bit of You know, you know what causes that? You know what causes that? What? Brandon, it's it's too much. No, this is a sign.

This is real. Here we go. It's too much of my life. Too much sodium mixed with sugar. Knew it. It makes you puffy. Knew it. Sodium sugar. It's a It's a sign. No. What he's trying to tell me is like, "Hey, Connor, get rid of the salt. Get rid of the sugar." Which is to say, Connor, stop drinking Coca-Cas, which is never going to happen. I'm drinking Diet Coke. How do you feel about diet? I don't love aspartame, but does this give me cancer, right? Not once in a while. No, for sure. But hey, this is a cancer-free zone. Hey, so I I saw a post the other day. This was a a good point. I don't know if you guys saw this on on social media. It was one of our our uh rooted coordinator. She says, you know, everybody be saying f cancer. Um as if like that's the cure, like we should be against cancer. And she's like, you know, that word, and we're speaking of a curse word, and none of us

say that word, which we shouldn't say that word. It's a terrible word, but it's become culturally accepted, you know, f cancer. And she's like, that's a connotation towards a reference of sex. And sex is actually designed for for creating. I mean, that's that's essentially what sex is. So when you're saying f cancer, you little do you know, you're actually promoting people don't think through what they're saying. No, they don't think through it. It's But philosophically, if we're actually saying it and how the devil deceives. So she's like, "Let's just look at the root. What will get rid of cancer?" The name of Jesus. Let's take the authority of Jesus. And I was just like, "Okay, even though you're just making a quick social media point, I'm like, I'm all about this. Let's take that which the devil is using for evil and let's just go ahead and communicate to the world." That's not the right way. That's Who was it? Who was it that said it?

It was uh Monica. I love Monica. Monica. So, yeah, she's Monica Hammock, you're the best. Will Hammock and And they know. And it came out of hearing someone had cancer, someone else's response, and her saying like, "Wait a second, that's not what's going to do it." She's like, "If I'm going to be angry towards cancer, I've got to take the authority of Jesus, start speaking to that cancer. I know what's stronger than you. I know what can cure you. I know what can get rid of this." And I this there's just there's something happening at our church right now within the people where we're taking that authority and we're seeing in a mighty way. Come on. You know, and all all joking aside, there is something special happening. There's this is unlike anything I've ever gotten to be a part of because it's organic and we can't even predict what's going to happen next.

The t the tide is rising. I felt it Sunday. Yes. And and you preached a a fuego word on who's who's your mama. Who's your mountain and your mama? Because you need the mountain and your mama. That was very that was very funny. But it was I I love I got the mama from you. So, well, you you you preached that message and worship. I'm just Yeah. the the overall temperature. Yeah. In the church with the presence of God. And it's not us curating this. It's the people of God showing up hungry. Guys, it's always available, but most of the time it's easy to miss it. It's so easy to miss the spirit of God moving the prophetic. I think it's just the busyiness of distraction, stress, worry, just life. As long as you just do

life, it's so easy to miss the spiritual. But I just this this last week was so overtly spiritual. My faith was like built up because we got a prophetic word a week ago Sunday, which I think we should talk about. Totally. Yep. But then like I saw God work in it. I also just had a turning point in my own life where you know, you hear scripture and it's like you're hearing it for the first time. That's right. And one of those scriptures I heard from me was like faith comes from hearing, hearing from the word, you know, and I was like, "Oh, wait. If I really want to grow in my faith, I really got to take God's word serious." This is the preacher saying this. I read the Bible every day. I go through my daily reading plan. It's not about like the nuances of, we talked about this the last couple hours, duty versus dwelling. Right. Right.

If it's a duty, I miss the spirit of God. If I want the presence of God in it, it's there and it will show up in mighty ways. Even to the point like my wife has had dreams before and one of the prophetic words given to her is Kara, you're going to have dreams. And he's like, I don't know if you've ever had them before. It's like, well, she has. And she was like, she used to say I could count them on one hand. Now I went on a walk with her the other day. She's like, well, now I got to say two hands. And we started praying towards it. So when you're praying towards it now, you're in tuned and you want to hear what does God what is God doing? And you're using the word of God to test the spirit. You're you're testing with other people. And I think we're doing that within a church. Well, lo and behold, Saturday night, she gets a prophetic dream, you know, and then I get into the word of God to test it.

Y and then all of a sudden, I actually get a text message before the service to confirm it. And I'm like, if if you're looking for it, it's already there. Yeah. But if you're too busy or too distracted, you'll miss what what's already cuz God doesn't change. He's always faithful moving. He's the spirit of God. You know, the Lord is the spirit where the spirit of the Lord is freedom. But so freedom is always available, right? You know, the prophetic is always available. The word of God's always available. But there has there has to be an expectation met with the prophetic word. Yeah. Like would you say even Pastor Kara there's been an expectation for her when she lays her head down at night? even the last week, right? Someone spoke it over her. We talked about it. Other people confirmed it. It's like, "Okay, either I'm gonna um reject this, right?

Or I'm going to receive this and try to lean in a little bit more." And I think that's that's the inclination. Uh what why would you say people miss it or even uh operate more in it? I think that well what you were saying to me it's what I've been talking about the last couple weeks with you guys of like this culture of um curation. It's like if it we we've we curate how we want things to look and when it doesn't look that way it's like the kingdom of God's still going to like the spirit of God is still going to move but if we have an expectation that is set in a specific preference Yeah. you can absolutely miss it. And you know what's funny, PK, is on this Sunday morning when you were uh I know Brandon saw me. I dude, I was

weeping like during the the prayer and um the prayer uh and rally time. And this is before church starts. We get together. We worship and pray just for the day. And you know what it was? So you you um you spoke and said, "Can you guys just close your eyes and I just want you to picture the father?" M and dude, I I I do not that does not appeal to me historically. I'm like always like, dude, don't bring me on a guided tour here. But I legitimately just instantly was like, you know what? I'm going to step into this right now. Close my eyes because and I thought through it later. I was like, why do I say no to those things? And I was like particularly because I'm like, I don't know what the face of God looks like. I'm not going to try sit here and try to curate. But I just I put all that aside in that moment as you

were walking us through this prayer which was so profound of just uh uh accepting what is already being lavished on us which is his love. So like you're walking us through too busy to miss the love of God or you have to pause and know that he's loving over you right now. Yeah. And so you're like walking us through this. You're like just close your eyes. I want you to imagine the face of God and I want you to imagine him just smile. You're just walking us through this prayer and this the the disposition of God towards us. And dude, I'm getting wrecked. I'm just over there weeping and pulling like tissues and like snotf face. True. Got me loving on you. Totally, dude. It was it was so but my point is if I had stuck with what how I curate things which is I don't which I could have just said PK in my mind I'm not going on this journey with you

because I don't want to I don't want to do this silly exercise and it's not a silly exercise. So I put that aside and I was like you know what I'm going to I'm going to be led here. I'm going to be led through this. And it totally wrecked me. And and I was really like I was more than okay, but as they would say, I was not okay the rest of the day. Like I was such in a tender place with the Lord that I needed to be in. Um so I think to answer your question, when we overcurate and customize everything in our lives, we're like it has to look this way, it has to look this way. Um God's not going to, you know, move unless we're we do this thing, unless we operate this way. I see Hannah nodding in her head over there. But so can I tell you where that even came from for me is I'm listening to a book right now. That's how I read my books. Uh called the other half of the church.

Is that right? The other half of the church. I I think that's right. Let me just go. It's actually it's been Yeah, the other half of the church. And it's it's it's talking about our brains. how the church has uh been traditionally uh designed, set up and completely functioning on a leftrain mindset that we don't operate on the full brain the way God wired us. Sure. And you know traditionally we say oh someone's either creative or um you know uh yeah exactly intelligent yeah whatever the case is. But that's actually God didn't design a one or the other. He designed for the fullness. And typically we've come across as disciplehip is information.

You know, if I if I tell you about God and you go learn about God and you do these things. And so we we teach people if you go to church, if you go to a small group, if you read your Bible and if you pray, these are the things that makes you a disciple. We call those spiritual disciplines in the church. But this book has actually been so good to wreck me. I can't say that I agree with absolutely every word of what's in this book, but it's definitely challenged my thinking of even how we in the western church do church. And the whole first argument of the book that the church is missing, so it's the other half of the church is missing is we only operate on one side of the brain, but we need to actually operate in the fullness of the brain. The first major argument is joy. M and this is this is where they argue the church does not teach joy like of course

we do teach joy but it's it's the understanding that somehow you could choose joy but their functioning of disciplehip and this argument of the book is is that you don't have to try to be a disciple you don't have to try to be like Jesus if you do it enough you are you don't you don't have to think about it so it's no longer the wwwd of what would Jesus do because if you have to ask that question it's already too late Because if you are living like a disciple, you will do what Jesus will do because you're operating in it. Your brain has actually been retrained to be a disciple of Jesus. So you're doing what Jesus would do. Does that make sense so far? Yeah. It makes me think of imitators that like Paul saying, "Be imitators of me." Is that right? So the joy argument is the true joy of Jesus is found and it's actually it's a verse that I've had to

meditate on. And he's like, "It's one of the first verses I memorized." I'm like, man, how come I never memorized this verse before? That's like such a good note. It's out of uh 2 Corinthians. I'm going to find it right here. Uh 2 Corinthians 4:6. For God who said, "Let light shine out of darkness has shone in our hearts to give the light of knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." So his whole point is the glory of God that made creation, that glory is found in the face of Jesus. Yeah. So if you see the face of Jesus, you see the glory of God. And what is on the face of Jesus? Joy. Jesus said, "I'll give you joy to the full." And so it kind of stunned me that your understanding of joy is and

and then they actually it's it's written by a psychologist. Forgive me. I'm going off on this book. The psychologist argues joy is greatest found in the human face. Eye to eye contact. Mhm. And we have literally moved away from the one thing God created face to face. So example Moses face to face with God as a friend face to face over and over and over and over. It's face to face. And the studies have shown if a parent plays with their baby and coups with them, smiles and uh shows joy on their face. You know what that baby feels? Safety, security, comfort, hope. It it's natural that you don't have to teach the baby those things. They see joy on the face and as a result they have become what joy is because it's face to face contact.

Now if a baby sees no joy and they see anger and they see worry and they see stress. Do you know what that does to the baby? It actually cognitively reshapes their brain to feel unsafe, unsecure, uncertain, filled with fear. Did they did nothing to teach the baby that except for that which is in the face of the parent. I think it's even if the I think I cuz I've heard what you're referring to. It's even if the parent shows no emotions. Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. If there's no joy. Yeah. So you take that with our relationship with Jesus. Mhm. If we're treating Jesus like we treat each other, texting each other, I love you, you know, sending DMs. Here's a real. Yeah. And we're now socializing in a way that's not face to face. The argument is the church is missing out on true joy.

Even to the point, get this, you guys will have to tell me your opinion of this. I like where this is. I like where this is going. I'm already thinking John 1:1. No, this is like this is related to church culture cuz 12 years ago, I made a hard decision that we will never at Journey Church. And this here's the argument. Church now, you come in, you sit and you look at the back of someone's face, you worship, and you look up and you hear the sermon, you look at this, and then you go home, right? No more face to face interaction. Yeah, we have completely gone away with like fellowship times at church where you shake the hand with somebody behind you. You do all those kind of things. I remember 12 years ago at Journey arguing with everybody. We'll never do fellowship time because some people are introverts and we want to make the introverts feel comfortable and you know we got new visitors and we don't want new visitors feel called out and all these kind of things. And the argument of this book is we have completely done away with what God created which is face to face interaction.

Good man. And like the argument is when a stranger smiles at a stranger, it stimulates something in the brain that changes them. You don't even have to know the person, but if you look them in the eyes and smile. So this Sunday, like when it I it was time for like the sermon. I actually took a moment. I'm like, I'm going to practice this. Hey, turn to a stranger and look them in the eyes. And I'm like, I didn't even know what to say. Just say something, you know? Great. We're not used to this. and say whatever comes to your mouth, you know, like I didn't want to be on a worship fail, you know, like uh but it's it's really it's it's it's breaking the um the culture of what we've created church to be in the western world and redesign it. So that's why I worked through that exercise is if we really see how God sees us,

come on, it actually shapes who we are and we don't have to try to be that. Yes. We don't have to try so hard to feel loved or to be filled with joy. I've already got it and received it totally because well the word the word presence in the Hebrew is the word face. Yeah. Amen. And in the presence of God is fullness of joy. Joy cuz you're face to face. Yeah. So I don't know if if I've heard that I'm hearing it for the first time again cuz that's a good word. Well, we have to remind ourselves. So what's the one thing that most churches have a hard time hosting? It's the presence of God. The face of God. So, so what would happen if our churches got back to this place to where we were utterly dependent on the presence of God showing up Sunday after Sunday?

Yeah. I I think that joy would show up in the room. Yeah. Hey, this might seem like a commercial, but don't skip over this. Kingdom Conference. It's time a new great awakening. There are moments in history where there's a stirring from God, something special, and you don't want to watch. You want to be a part of what God's doing. That's Kingdom Conference. It's coming in November. So, don't miss this. Sign up today. Encounter God. Be a part of what God's doing. I'll see you there. I think it it it it goes to because I know you are were thinking probably what I was thinking. I've said pros. Yeah. Go there. It John 1. In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. And that the word with is pros which is face to face. In the beginning the word Jesus the logos was face to face with God. So the the most ancient thing the before time

is relationship is face to face relationship. Wow. It's like the what's the first thing Adam sees when he when he when God breathes into his nostrils? He's face to face with God. So how can what did sin do? Yeah. Sin made me hide. I don't want to see God's face as if God turn away. I love that question from God. Where are you? You know it's like like God doesn't see. Of course God sees him. Yeah. What are you looking Who are you listening to? It's not me. Yeah. Well, how do you guys feel about fellowship times at church? Do y'all know what I'm talking about? Like a thousand%. My my thing is always if if something is disingenuous Yeah. And I think that you can you can be awkward and fumble through something. But if the heart is genuine, if the heart is to like steward people, like to like like what you're saying of like face to face

relational, like let's let's look at each other. You can botch the delivery, which I'm not saying you did, but you can botch the delivery of that. But if your heart is that the church would see this is what it's about. We can't steward the presence of God if we don't actually understand what his posture is towards us, which is face to face. Yeah. So, I think Yeah. I I'm all about I'm all about fellowship time. It's just when people are doing it to fill time. Yeah. where I'm like, okay, like I don't want to have an awkward engagement here for no reason. Yeah, for no reason. PB, what's your thought on social? Oh, I think I think I'm right there. I think I'm right there. I mean, we're the thermostat anyways, so I like connecting with people and making them feel comfortable, but that's what it comes down to. It really is the why, the heart behind it. We had talked a few weeks ago. I I met with a mega pastor down in

uh Arizona and he's really trying to uh re understand their young adults because they have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of young adults showing up on Thursday. But what he found is he just asked a simple question. He didn't even ask a question. He said, "We are a great commission, great commandment church." And then he asked a group of like 600 young adults. How many you know what that means? And like you know six hands go up of 600. He was like, "Whoa, we've got some discipling to do." But then he starts with the foundation. I don't remember if it was the next week or what. And I've told you that what happened is he got people around the tables instead of Rose. And it was the simplest questions. And it was kind of like speed dating. It was just these real simple questions. What's your name? Uh when did you come to the church? And what do you love about the church?

And so they all got to know everybody's names. They got to know what they loved about the church. Everybody's different. I love the worship. I love the teacher. I love the people here. You know, my life was ch, you know, they're saying what they loved and then you go to the next table. And he said it was the most lifealtering thing they've ever done in their young adults group. Better than any preacher they brought in. Better I mean, they bring in worship guests all the time. And his young adult daughter was like his uh said, "This is the most impactful young adult meeting we've ever had." Simply because they got to know so many other people and they got to know why they love the church. Like, oh, we're all part of something we love here. That's why we're showing up here. Yeah, there was like it was raw fellowship that like I don't think it could have been predicted like a consultant probably couldn't come in and say here's how you do this but it was face to face around the table like oh that's your name.

So can I ask you a question cuz you talked about this earlier. Yeah. You talked about a word that was delivered uh over our church about the men in the church. Oh we're going there. So let's let's talk about men. Yeah. Yeah. And and their their they don't want to do that. their inability or or the fear of connecting that pro that face to face. Yeah. Oh, that's that's a great word. If God gets this Yeah. He will. He's God. But if this happens, so that prophetic word you're talking to him so everyone has clarity. The listener was one week ago. Same preacher came in. He was just laying out these prophetic words. It was so good. And he said, I thought he kept looking at he's like, "One more." Yeah. I I just kept screaming yes years ago. I would have been like stop what are you doing? But he said this church uh that the movement of God that's going to happen in this church going to start with the men. Men are going to lead the way.

And he talked about purity, righteousness. I mean really good stuff. I mean it sounds like general things but it's not in the sense that these things aren't happening in the church and in the culture today. So that's what that was the word that was prophesied. He had the men stand up and then he prayed over the men. We actually have been praying about a movement of God with men here and strategically looking at uh creating uh environments for that. So in that book, that chapter about joy, he gives some exercises for people to do whether it's in the whoever's reading the book, he says, "Do this. Look somebody in the face and then tell them some kind things or something, but look them in the eyes." And one of the things he said is do not do it with the opposite sex that's not your spouse because it will produce things in your brain that will actually make you feel things that you should only feel with

your spouse. So you will if someone's from the opposite sex even if you don't have romantic sexual feelings before if they say something to you nice looking you in the eyes you might have a feeling that they actually care for you in a in so it's really interesting exercise I think that we have so lost intimacy in our world men don't know how to be men no doubt so when you talk about let's just start in the home with a husband and a wife young men don't learn early how to love and lead well right and over the years and decades, it creates such dysfunction. We've got a bunch of grown men that just don't know how, right? And to be honest, I to their own defense, it's not that they don't want to lead their wives or their children or this generation.

They they just don't know how. And that's where I think there's actually going to be a movement of God because it's not that we're going to teach them how because we just said disciplehip is not just about doing, it's about being. Come on. And when you can when you can be Jesus. Yeah. And you repent of your old ways and you just receive from him who you are. Sounds so simple, but I think there's a radical move happening. Tell me your thoughts on that. No, I'm just sitting here listening to you thinking about that old Ian Bounds quote that that men are looking for better methods. God's just looking for better men. Men who are just living congruent lives with who they're called to be. And to your point, first we're called to be a son first and foremost. Yeah. But if we don't know how to receive the love of God, how are we going to give it to our sons and our daughters?

How are we going to teach them to communicate if we don't know how to communicate? Mhm. So I that is so important. So we are not calling any men to do more. No, totally. It's too much of a burden. Correct. You know what men love to be called to do more. Yeah. Well, I can't tell you how many times if there's a conflict between me and my wife, I have said ignorantly and foolishly, even though I even know better, like, well, then just tell me what to do or what am I not doing that you want me to do? Or what do you want me to say? It's like the most foolish thing cuz if if if she has to tell me, you know, I have missed the point of what's created the conflict. But if I can be present and even in humility, repent of the fact that I'm not being who I need to be in this moment. Yeah, it changes everything. And I tragically, it's taken me decades to even start to get that humility and understanding, but I do believe it's prophetic that at

Journey Church in Bend, Oregon, you can take note of it. God's going to do something great in the men here. Well, I mean, this is the bottom line. I'm not I don't think we need to skirt around it, but I think the men on this staff are like, this is a really healthy team of men, okay? who I mean even just between the three of us how um we express love and affection for each other. M it's you know there's no like we don't try to like skirt around and be like oh you know I'm not trying to make you uncomfortable but you look really good in those pants you know whatever like it's it's just we're able to just really like genuinely just say it yeah like it would just genuinely love on each other even from the the simple things but also to like you know PK when you walk around and and I mean you did it for the whole staff but even for um the men in the room just

being the way that you you will step in and just minister to us is I mean I'm used to this kind of thing, but I know now having been exposed to more men that even just the simple act of you putting your hands on like their shoulder, you know, is going to stir things up and guys like, "Oh, that's what And so I think we're set up here from the top down to be able to love on men to be able to express like, hey, this is what sunship looks like and this is who you are. This isn't something you have to do to attain. this is who you are and we're going to we're going to show it and model it to you and and we're just going to be doing it by loving you, not giving you a to-do list. Tell our listeners then what you're referring to cuz I got put in a situation. Yeah. Yeah. So on on our Tuesday staff meeting um you we have story time and you asked all of us uh collectively

you're like tell me something I can't remember specifically what you said but you're like tell me something you're excited about or that you feel is God's doing in your I think it was in your ministry. We were wrapping up the Zechariah 4 and I had proposed a question something about do not despise small beginnings because I can look around the table and I think the small beginnings are right here but God's going to do great things. There's 10 of them for you guys right now. Well, I was just like I and I'm what do you guys think? And I wasn't really getting the answers that I was hoping for. Nobody was really like ah I know God's got a big vision for me. So I was like I know that they're right here. And then Pastor Noah said to me, well then why don't you tell us happened? Oh great. Totally. And so the next two hours, well, the way I remember it just by just to push back a little is that it happened really quickly.

Was you it was like all in one sentence was you is you saying like I want to hear this from you guys. And by the way, I can think of 10 things that I see happening. So you you could you already were saying I can call the things I'm seeing in you. And right after that, Pastor Noah says he's like, "Go there. Say it then." And you're like, "All right." And so then you just walked around the room and laid hands on every single staff member prophesied and I was just like, "Yep, this is Well, then talk about being a man because it's not your traditional manhood." I ended up weeping over most people. Oh, totally. It was. And that's a very vulnerable place as a man to weep. You know, it's like you I I can't make myself weep. You know, there are times I want to weep. Like even in worship on, you know, in your own house, it's harder to be vulnerable and it's harder to be in the

moment and I have a hard time weeping in our own worship. But when I do, it's like snot, you know, like I'm uncontrolled. It's usually when I'm tired. So, I'm ultra vulnerable, but because weeping is a really um it's a vulnerable thing for men. Not a lot of guys do that, but it's also a sign of deep affection for those that you care for, you know. And I think of the fact that brothers compete, fathers complete. Yeah. And in that moment, all you're doing is coming in bringing identity, encouragement to your staff. Yeah. And what would happen if we had a group of men that were so for each savagely for each other to where we're saying, "Hey, it's my benefit, your benefit at my expense. Yeah.

My life is to serve." Amen. and and and and be a benefit to what God has sovereignly graced and deposited on your life. But I love we need to as men, we need to welcome tears. We need to invite tears because there's some there's something in the realm of breakthrough even in that moment. Amen. When you're as a spiritual father praying and releasing life and blessing over your staff. It was incredible. Wow. I think it just while you're looking I'm trying to find a scripture. Uh I I'm just thinking too u I know I repeat a lot of same ideas but I think they bear repeating. It's you know Paul was always giving the indicative the imperative. He was saying this is who you are therefore live this way. That's right. And I think it's like when we go we've gone to these men's conferences and we leave and we're just like why did we do this? What did we subject ourselves to?

You know, cuz they they the play across just really western society, but it's also the western church has taken the cues from western society, which is give men like give men a kick in the pants, tell them that, you know, and some, you know, sometimes we need a little some guys need a little bit of that. But there is the the there's a reason Paul when he spoke to these churches emphasized over and over and over before he told them a darn thing to do, he said, "This is who you are." That's right. So do this. That's right. Because it's who you are. So I think and I that's what I see you doing PK is is you've been like really speaking and calling things out in us before we even see it. And you're like this is who you are. I see you doing this. I see you doing this, so go do it. Amen.

And you know, and I'm like, that's the the Pauline imperative. It's like we've got to live in that and we've got to show that to to men cuz men need that. The last thing guys need is anymore is to be told they need to be doing more. That's right. They need to be told who they are more. That's what we've experienced at a lot of men's type retreats that we've not put on is it's a thanks for the qualifier. We did not it's a macho egotistical version of male Christianity. Yeah. that with all due respect, men aren't acting like men. And Paul says, you know, uh, at the end of Romans, act like men. You know, there's this great verse at the very last chapter of Romans, like here's what you need to do. Act like men. So, the response is act like men. But when the pendulum swings so hard, and you guys, I'm sure, have seen this, too. When you have to say something repeatedly over

and over and over and over again, it it often times means you're probably not that. I'm so humble. I'm so humble. I'm so humble. I am so freaking humble. Everybody else in the world is filled with pride. I'm humble. You know, it's like actually, bro, can I talk to you? You know, you're not humble. I have a word for you. Yeah. It's it's I remember in my early Christianity days hearing Ted Haggard constantly say, "Christian sex is the best sex. Christian sex is the best sex. And me being a young single guy, be like, I can't wait to get married and have tons of sex. It's going to be the best. It's going to be the best. And then this bro gets caught with a male prostitute doing drugs. And I'm like, oh, he was overcompensating for something. So, can we just lay down the guard a little bit? And what act like men doesn't mean that we have to like overtly be the John Wayne of society.

Sometimes it's just the establishment of acknowledging just even repentance that could be more of a man than machoism, you know. So I I I think it's just I think it's an overcompensation of, you know, I've seen this time and time again when someone comes in and tells you something too much. Yeah. You're probably not the fullness of what you're telling me cuz somewhere you're trying to like That's right. They and they've adjusted the playbook a little bit. Like I I've seen even at some of these ones we've gone to these men's camps and retreats, they are like adjusting a little where they're like they're wanting men to kind of show their, you know, show some tenderness like engage in worship, you know, a little bit differently, but they haven't fully like they I I to me I'm like, "Hey guys, if this if this was going to work, the play that you guys have been hitting, we'd be

seeing like major results and and fruit." So So what's the play? The play is what I just said, which is we need to be telling men, hey, this is who you are in Christ. This is what Ephesians, Galatians, Romans, this is what all of the New Testament says that you are in Christ. But how how do they flesh that out on a daily basis? So, distill that down. Well, we we our behavior flows from what what we believe is true about us. Correct. So, how do we reinforce the truth? I mean, one, the word of God is living. So, it's not we're not just I'm not reading a self-help book. Correct. I'm reading the living word of God. So if I'm going into the New Testament looking and saying, "Okay, this is from this point on from when Christ ascended, all of this after to the these letters to the churches is a is speaking. Yes, it

was speaking to them, but this applies to me because I am in Christ." Amen. So here my my deeper question to both of you guys is knowing that and that's a thousand% the truth. Can a man flesh out his God-given purpose? And and I think of that Maxwell quote, we don't go to the next level, we grow to the next level. Can we grow in our identity, calling, prophetic assignment without accountability? No. We need each other, you're saying? Yes, for sure. Yeah. And and well, so you guys want to know what the next thing that's missing from the church? The first one's joy. Come on. This is so good. like has and the so is this Hebrew word is it's the most common attribute connected to God and it's hard to translate into English. It's steadfast faithfulness,

steadfast kindness, mercy, love. It's the word that we find in the New Testament as agapa or agape. It's this love that's unconditional. So I'll still love you not based on what you give me, but I will love you faithfully. So the argument here is this this blew my mind. I got to get your perspectives of this. You know, you ever hear scripture and you thought you had to figure out you're like, wait, I don't like how I feel about this, but I think I agree with it, right? And and it's in Revelation about losing your first love. So let's come back to this. But is faithfulness. So what we have said in the church is if you do this, do this, do this, you know, you're a Christian, you're a churchgo, you're a disciple, right? Had practice in the faithfulness of us doing life together.

Steadfast faithfulness. If you fail, I don't give up on you. Yeah. Right. You need building up, I build you up. You need prayer, I pray for you. Has said is the mercy of God lived out through us. Yeah. So here's the here's what essentially the way he put it is when Jesus says to the church in Ephesus, you've abandoned your first love, we always interpret it as the church abandoned the first love with Jesus. This author's argument is no, we've abandoned our love to each other. Because how how can you love the Lord if you're not loving each other? Yeah, that's good. And in the fullness of that argument, it's not an either or, right? It only can be both and totally.

So to your point about community or iron sharpens iron, manto man here is if I'm going to follow Jesus, I cannot not connect with other men. I cannot not disciple them and allow them to hold me accountable. And so any form of isolation is not I have now been disconnected from God. Yeah. So, changes everything because if I'm if I'm receiving the faithfulness of God, I'm giving the faithfulness of God and it's it's lived out, you know, it's it's not a program. It's actually uh the nature of who I am. People say, "Oh, he's faithful." Yeah. He's kind merciful. He's loving. Yeah. You know, and and vice versa. It's received back because if you receive a agape Jesus, you know, or is it Jesus John?

Somebody says this uh uh we love because we've first been loved. Correct. Is that John? First John, right? Yeah, first John. Thank you. Uh we love because he first loved us. Thank you. I had to uh process it out loud. We love because he first loved us. Well, that's we can genuinely love when we've been loved, which is I think what you're trying to say. So it's not just belief shapes behavior. It's actually becoming what's informing that belief, right? Do you know what I'm saying? Like that's So that's and that's that that is given to us through I think what you're saying rel it's relationship. It's not just information. Yes. It's deposited. The truth of it is deposited relationally. Does that make sense? Is that is Yeah.

I I have an old school view of accountability. You know, I got saved in the '9s, went to Christian college in the '90s, and accountability was all about behavior modification. Like, it was all about do good, do good, do good. It was it was the generation of be pure, be pure, be Yeah. Joshua Harris, he's doing great. Yeah. And it was and I literally that that's that's the accountability I remember. And so, you get a bunch of young men in a room and they're all just confessing how bad they are, right? You know, and it's like, "Oh, me too, bro. Oh, you're not alone." And next thing you know, no one's really living out a life of righteousness and purity because no one knew how to do it. No one was really modeling it. So the accountability comes when we've we've actually I I would go so far as to say it is a full surrender to God that now I don't care.

I have to have you in my life because if I'm surrendered to God, I have to be obedient to the fact I've got to love you, forgive you. You know, like you they're they're one and the same. It comes back to the word of God. Like you said, if I get into the word, this thing's together. That's right. If at all possible, I've got to now strive to be in peace with other people. That's right. I don't necessarily want to, but now that I have the Christ, I'm like, I don't get a choice in this. So, what do you guys think are the biggest roadblocks for the average guy to welcoming that accountability? Not not to performance, but just to living congruently with who God's called them to be. Because I think of even like post pandemic like things guys have already done well isolating themselves post pandemic 2020.

Now we just want to go home stay at home. I I think that is just it is we have conformed to the patterns of this world so much so in our brain and in our habits and in our culture to be who Christ has destined and designed us to be is so counterultural. Correct. you there is a literal literal rewiring of the brain that needs to happen. So there's a consistency and a discipline that must match the passion for change. And when those things happen, I I think everything changes. So I think the greatest obstacle is ourselves. You know, if you've been looking at porn for decades, uh it's not just this commitment at church on Sunday to give up porn, right? Uh it's actually a commitment to rewire my brain of why do I look at porn? What has it done to my brain? And what do I have to do to rewire my brain?

I have to retrain it. I have to have my brain understand that the the good feelings I was feeling from one thing, what is going to give me that good feeling? We're coming back to joy again. I was trying to find joy in some something other than my identity of the face of Jesus and the glory of God. You and this goes in every place. Even anger. I can't tell you how many times I've been angry and I've tried to not be angry. No, I've got to understand why am I angry? And I have to actually rewire that and replace it so that cuz if I get to the the the the place of, oh, I'm angry, don't respond in whatever the anger is, rage, yelling, uh, whatever the case is. If I've gotten to that place, it's already too late. Right? If my identity is in Christ, I'm no longer angry because I'm producing the fruit of the spirit, right?

Patience is coming out, kindness is coming, gentleness is coming out. So, it's no longer a striving for those things. So, I think the greatest obstacle is ourselves. We actually have to discipline and rewire our our psyche, our brains, and that will change a whole culture. Yep. So, we're actually talking that's why a prophecy like the men are going to be the move of God. No, it's actually impossible. can't happen without God. Without God. No. He's going to do it. He's going to because even men they feel defeated. Yeah. How many times they try? I mean, so many men in our church are addicted to marijuana. They're numbing their lives, right? You know, but God can change it in a moment. Totally. And that's why guys have to know like your brain isn't your buddy. No. Like you run that thing. It can't run you. Romans 12:2, you have to treat the renewing of your mind like your life depends on you. Yep.

Because it does. intentionality a thousand%. So, so the obstacle is not like, well, if I do enough, it's it's actually this I wake up, I've got to live differently, right? I've got to think differently. I've got to speak differently. Not because it gets me in, but because that's who I am. Otherwise, it's just like you're saying, it goes back to the purity culture of behavior modification. It's like, oh, I have to do this. It's like, no, no, no. This is It's like if you got if we got I give this example to to guys a lot. Like if if we imagine you just get adopted by like a family in Japan and you go to you go to the house, you're adopted, but you go and you get into their house and all of a sudden you're like, "Oh, like we take off our shoes here. Oh, this we, you know, we bow in honor. We do all these things." You're like, "Oh, there's a way of living." Yeah. In this family you're in, but you've got to learn. You've got to learn how to You're And you're going to put these things into practice, but you doing it

doesn't get you into this. You're in and now. That's right. It's just congruence. Yes. Culture. Y but like you're saying it happens within the context of family within relationship face to face pro going back to that original point and daily disciplines you know when your new mom tells you take off your shoes every day you know that's hard at first it's hard at second it's hard at third after a while it's like I I don't even thinking about it right no one has to tell me I didn't need to be I don't even have to think about taking off my shoes I open the door the shoes came off it's who I am discipline is not legalism but you can make it legalism Just think about that when it comes to who a man is. If a man doesn't even think about loving his wife anymore, he just loves her. If a man doesn't even think about serving his church, he just serves the church.

If a man doesn't think about giving gener generously, it's just who I am. Totally. But but to get there, you really have to be transformed by the renewing of your mind to understand God's good and perfect will. And you have to understand that my decisions right now are leading to God's good and perfect will. That's it. You know, it's it's actually it's good for me. And that's the highest form of leadership, self leadership. Yes. And if you don't lead yourself well, do you think your wife is actually gonna want to be led by you? Yeah. No. Or the world. Or the world or anybody. Why do people not want to be part of the church? Men keep failing. Pastors keep failing. Why is trust at an all-time low in the church? Men who are supposed to be leading the church are failing. They're they're sleeping around. They're lying. They're they're all these um counterfeit manliness. You're preaching one thing, but you're privately doing another, but because it's not who you are.

And they're also they're upholding a culture which is not relational otherwise because they're not like if if they're dealing with secret sin. Yeah. And that means you have no relation. There's no real relationship that's happening with people that are really you're worried about being canceled. You're worried if I bring this out, I'm going to have to step down. My whole livelihood's gone. not my brethren will surround me and like and be dedicated to my restoration and healing is in confession. Come on. And that's a part of the hass that's a part of people don't understand like I that confession they we we view all these things as as scary but it's like confession what is it? It's inherently relational. Yeah. Amen. And I love our church right now. I can't I've never been so excited. I we got pastor Han in the room and uh

yesterday pastor Noah closed the service with me and just even what we're telling people why they should be in community. Breakthrough happens in community like this is not like this petty little like oh you need community. You're not made for isolation. And you know we've used you know phrases. It's one of our core values. We're community creators. It's one of our pillars. Hope and community. But the why behind it is when you get to that place and you confess and you realize people love you as you are. Woo. That's right. It changes everything. Come on. That I am not the things I've done. I am not the things that were done to me. Say it. I am who God says I am. So good. I'm a child of God. It's a really I want to sing that. That's really a radical shift.

Oh, it's awesome in mindset. And you know the cool thing? I think people are hungry for this. I think they're excited for this. I I I'm just I'm experiencing this like going into church in the park this year. It's like we're not just having church outdoors. I think people know there's a move of God happening. And this is so weird because we've done this so many times before and God has moved. I just don't think I was in the flow of the spirit. I'm like, we've had almost 200 baptisms at Church in the Park. We celebrate that and then we just kind of move on. But like, did we know that we were a part of a move? Yeah. Like did did we pray for that move? Did we I mean just think about what happens when we actually are in the move of the spirit. Come on. I think it's significant to PK that um I was just thinking about this the other day when we were talking because you said it from the platform, but you also

said it in Tuesday's meeting about that um they're they're going to shut off the church in the park for us. They're going to like basically say like, "Hey, you can do this this year, but you're not going to do it again." and the reality that you're like, "Oh, I'm I'm not I already I I know that the Lord's got us." Amen. And I know that you have said, you've expressed and we all have that that kind of thing could like like a year ago, two years ago, three years ago, you think about yourself getting that same news, then you're just like spirit of fear. Totally. And there for you as like the leader, like I'm I know that I'm taking cues from you and I'm watching you where you're like, "Oh, I'm not even tripping about that." Like we already know that this year is going to be Oh yeah. is going to set us up for what happens next year and we don't even know what that is. But we know whether it's here or wherever. If we have to get inflatable pools, I don't care, you know.

Well, I was describing to one of my kids what happened at that meeting. We're referring to the Ben Parks and Wreck. And uh the the the the rules that they listed off for us and one of my kids said, "Uh, that sounds like discrimination." I'm like, "No, it doesn't sound like discrimination." It is. It is straight up. It's like it's blunt like and I and I read one line to the church, you know, the first line of the church. They said, "We can't have baptisms." And they came back and they said, "You may have baptisms in that spot that we said you can't." And the church just cheered. Yay. And then I was like, I'm not finished with the sentence. I was like with Yeah. With the caveat that you do not ever do them at this location again or ever have your any future events.

That's how black and white it was. And literally the first service booed. They were like boo. I'm like I'm like what are we like in the 17 1800s? You know like when they hiss and boo. I'm like this is hilarious because it's happening in real time. And you're right. Like in the past without a regenerate mind and dependence on the Holy Spirit being led by the spirit a spirit of fear creeps up spirit of defensiveness and all of a sudden all of the anxiety that comes with that and then then you uh cast it on other people. That's leadership. You know, you're leading people and then they get that same fear and now it's like, "No, we know. We know that. We know that. We know God's hand is on this. We wouldn't have this type of confrontation if it wasn't. Somebody's going to get saved out of this." You could feel it in the room. You could feel everybody being like, "Yeah, God's we don't even know what,

but we know that this year and next year, God's God's doing cuz the kingdom has obstacles. And anytime we don't think that our lives will will have obstacles, we're caught off guard. And then now we're living reactionary instead of the men of God that he's called us to be. Let's go. So good. Uh PB, could you answer your question? What obstacle do you see uh hindering men to be the men that like for accountability? Like being willing to lock in for accountability. Oh, you did answer. No, no, no. I'm just saying is that what is that what you man? I think guys are so afraid to be seen. Like we hate when we see our own holes, right? Like I have my own blind spots. But I just I it goes back to the lack of a father. You have so many teachers, hardly any fathers, Paul says.

When you're not fathered and your dad doesn't teach you, vulnerability is actually a strength. Then you you just don't know. Yeah. So what happens is instead of being able to be transparent Yeah. which there's so much breakthrough in our transparency as leaders. Yeah. Right. I mean, that's part of what makes you great is you're able to stand in front of your staff and be honest and vulner Yeah. you you feel like you're less than weakness and you're modeling something and people are going to be a thousand% a thousand%. And so I think I think most men, this is why men are the answer. I tell guys, man, that I coach, I'm like, you're the problem, but you're also the solution. you're the problem, but you are also the answer to your pray. We need men who are willing to lock arms with each other, be vulnerable

and rise up. So, I think just by nature of not having dads. The reality is all of us have some kind of daddy wound, right? Some are more extreme than the others, but all of us have some kind of father wound where we just weren't taught. Mhm. Show me the dude that was actually taught how to communicate like a savant by his dad and show and model his emotions. That avatar, that dude does not exist. Same thing with uh women. Totally. You know, Shane uh Winnings, I think that's how you say his name. He's the president of uh Promise Keepers now and does a lot of stuff with TPSA. He's got a whole bunch of videos right now where he's going on to college campuses. He's going to the hot spots where young adults are um and teenage girls and things like that and he's going up to them and he's offering them uh one of two choices. He says,

"Would you rather have a strong dad in your life or a million dollars?" And do you know what the answer is time and time and time again? A dad? No question. And you know some of these girls that are dressed highly promiscuous and all these kind of things like they'll they'll even start off by saying, "Of course, a million dollars." He says, "Really, a million dollars? How come?" And then as soon as they start to process, they're like, "You know what? Now that you say it, I never did have a dad." And I don't really know what I I maybe, no, I think it would be a dad. You know, like even as they process it, they realize like the value of a And it's like crazy to think this culture, women and men, they both recognize those things. Yes. Uh let me ask you guys, um have you ever watched the movie Average Joe with Tim Allen? Oh, yeah. No, that's what I just said.

Definitely not. It's a movie. It's a movie. Yeah, that there's a movie called Average Joe with Tim Allen, which is Or is it Fighting Joe or uh No, it's a Is it called Average Joe? Which movie are you talking about? It's a newer movie like in the last year. It's a um what those movies called? Like a It's a movie like it's a true story. Like it's it's not just based on a true story. Like it is a true story. Yeah. And it's very good. You got to see it. It's on Amazon Prime. We just watched it. Someone told me to watch it like six months ago and I didn't. So, it's called Average Joe and it's everything we're talking about, which is so good because it's about a boy who was uh abandoned by his parents and adopted into a family that was not what they thought he thought he was being adopted into. They said it was a family lived on a farm that wanted to have kids.

Instead, it was a family that had tons of adopted kids. They were abusive and not kind to any of them. So, he grew up with a fighting spirit. Okay? Literally fought everybody. His identity was nobody's going to love me. I've got to fight them, right? Got kicked out of schools, all these kind of things. Eventually, not even the adoptive parents want him. So, they abandoned him. I'm telling you guys, the whole movie. Um, but his identity is I don't I don't know how to be a man, so I just know how to fight. So, he went into the Marine Corps. And what do you do in the Marine Corps? You fight. Yeah. You know, but he did learn something in the Marine Corps discipline. But it's so good. Eventually, this is what the real story is about is he becomes a football coach, and bends his knee on the field. And this is up in Washington State, our neighbor, which is as liberal as our state.

And they said, "You can't do that." And uh it went to court and then it went to the Supreme Court and it made it all the way up to the federal Supreme Court. I mean, it's a really good movie. And you know, one of the reasons I really like this movie, it is all full disclosure, it's not a Hollywood movie. So it is like a Christian movie. So the acting is not like impeccable and the directing is not impeccable, but the story line because it is a true story. It's about a husband and a wife and they are completely broken and it's honest. It is brutally brutally honest. Like I just really appreciate the story line cuz it was not a polished Christian story. You know the polished Christian story is we get married and we we have a a problem and we get victory in the problem and the credits roll. This is

not so sweet and cute. This one you're like this one is like their childhood sweethearts and then he comes to propose to her and she's pregnant with somebody else and you know it's like it's just like it's all over the place. Like it's it's it's actually really brutal. And then eventually they end up back together but neither of them ever dealt with their past. So they actually have the same problems now that they entered marriage even though they they were childhood. We I'm like oh this is raw. I mean, I told Kara this like we just watched it last night and I was like, this is so raw. But it's all about the absence of a father. And who does that make you be? And the cool thing is the redemption of God, doesn't matter how old you get, it's never too late with God. Yes. You know, and a man that's willing to surrender his heart changes the world. He changes the world. This guy, by the end of the movie, he's like, "How could God use someone like me?" And hence the title of the movie, After Joe, his

name's Joe. And he's like, I am just like an orphan who doesn't even know the Bible. Like, who am I? And he overturned a case from 1971 when the Supreme Court ruled in favor that you cannot publicly do religious things. And that's when prayer, ten commandments, anything outside uh in anywhere public uh a judge could rule that you can't do that based upon a hearing from 1971. The Supreme Court reversed it because of this guy. This is recent like the last couple years. I had no idea. Reversed it where this is why you're starting to see Ten Commandments starting to be back up in schools like in Texas, you know, but this can happen in any 50 in our nation. Yeah, we're allowed to pray publicly now.

We're allowed to post religious things now. The things like theora, all these things that were taken down the last 50 years was reversed because average Joe who kneled on the ground at a football game and every He got fired for his job, by the way. He got fired for this. I mean, it was it y'all got to watch this movie. Average Joe. And it's the newer movie on Amazon Prime. Yeah. Uh you you do have to rent it. You got to pay money to watch it, but best four bucks you'll ever spend. Uh it's and but it's everything we're talking about. So if if you want it in a movie form, this conversation, the surrender, I love I love you use the word surrender. Yeah. And it is and that's hard for guys as well. It's not easy. Correct. Yeah. I mean, when you surrender, you're actually surrender yourself to the unknown where if you haven't done that your whole life, it actually is questioned, right? And now you got to

see, will I be the man that doesn't rise up and fight the questioning, but actually model the surrendering that I'm surrendering to? And even and even your your trauma, cuz guys like to hold on to, well, you don't you don't know. You don't know what I went through. It's like where I've been, right? And your trauma, it's not your fault, but it is your responsibility to deal with it. Yeah. You know, cuz if not, you're a guy, especially as a bornag again brother. It's like having a multi-billion dollar inheritance that's yours and you're just living on 10 cents a day. Yeah, it's so goofy. Yeah, God can heal you, set you free, make you who he wants you to be. So that surrender part is hard for guys. It sounds simple. Yes. But it's it requires everything. A thousand%. And I think too much in our Christianity, the culture that I bought into the last 30 years of my Christian faith or more, is just that if you do

enough, if you can be enough, and you're so let down, right, when you realize you're still the same person you used to be, Mhm. you haven't regenerated that mind. in Romans 12:2. Yep, that's it. I think that's the theme. I mean, I talked to somebody a week ago who uh was challenging the same thing. She's like, "I was so on fire when I got saved, but I feel like the last 20 years my Christianity was on pause." And then she's actually one of the ones that really challenged me with this faith comes from hearing, hearing from the word of Christ. She's like, "I decided to just I'm I'm tired of my faith being on pause. I just started memorizing scripture." And she's like, "And then I have all these questions about the Holy Spirit." And then they were answered in church and then all these scriptures are coming up. You know what's happening is she's just doing what the word of God says and she's becoming who God wants her to be. Yeah. Yeah.

Like this is you take God's word ser if you memorize scripture. You really meditate on it and wonder what does this mean? It changes your life. So good. It changes you guys both a question. You're the best question asker I know. I like to ask. Man, you don't get answers if you don't ask questions. Be curious. Bam. Be curious. Wow. What would both of you guys say is something that you've learned over the last year, two or three years that's helped you grow as a man, as a leader in your own home? I mean a lot. The first thing that comes to my mind is I don't know a thing about a thing. Oh, so h humility. So yeah, cuz you when you for me I have lived in that space of like obviously I don't know everything but I know a lot

of things. Yeah. And even that posture is not helpful. And there's like things that were when you said to me a long time, you're like, "Treat every day like it's your first like in your marriage, treat every day like it's your first day." That was life-changing cuz then it's like I get home and like I'm able to just reset my which I'm naturally a present person. But that was even more impactful cuz I I'm like I'm going to walk in the door and this is the first day being home with my bride, first day back with my with my, you know, newborn baby girl, whatever. Yeah, but being able to acknowledge that I just I don't know the first thing about anything and to then be receptive to even things that I don't agree with and still be able to give them the time of day that they deserve to sit through and be be a student. I think it's a good word. That's good.

We we just heard that comment earlier from someone that said that the the older I get, the more I realize what I don't know. And I think that's a sign of maturity. A sign of maturity is that I don't know what I don't know and I want to be who God wants me to be. And I I just think that's it's a posture that we can all be in to learn something new to be who God wants you to be. I would to answer your question I I would for me I would say it's realizing why do I do what I do? So it's a a self-revelation. It's a emotional intelligence. Yeah. You know I I have a proclivity to um feel good. on the enog would be a seven. Sure. And so like why do I uh eat a lot of sugar or drink alcohol or seek the pleasures that I seek? Why do I do any of those things? Oh, God

wired me that way. So now I have to actually see is there a way to fulfill God's wiring, not in things that are harmful or toxic. And when I understand that, it's the surrender of I have failed in these areas. And I I want to I want to thrive. Yeah. I want to operate from victory, not for victory. And what's your answer? What have you learned the last two or three years of I mean, one of the things I love about UPK is like you always have a coach, you know, and about 3 years ago, I started paying for coaching. And I think if we're not learning, yeah, we're we're done growing. Amen. Leaders are learners a thousand%. And so I think that has been something to me I go great. Yeah. It's It's transformed my own personal leadership. Yeah.

And and really, you don't even have to think about the word coaching because that could have a weird, you know, terminology for for some people. It's just being inquisitive. Amen. Asking questions. Like when did we as men stop becoming inquisitive like asking questions. Totally. Not just saying I don't know. Hey, tell me. Yeah. Give me the Yeah. Give me the give me the play. Because we think right because we're we've been running for the last 10, 20, 30 years, however old you are, a play that has not produced any fruit. We're just coasting. Well, what's the question you and I always ask each other when you know when we're meeting with people? We ask a lot of questions though. Well, the one that I at least I always ask you is like, did they ask you any questions about you? Or did they ask you did they ask you any questions? Right. Yeah. It says a lot about somebody. That's that's a litmus. Were they interested? You know, I I think we can even wrap up our time today just looking back at some of the the fathers of our faith. And yes,

Billy Graham was once asked like what was his regret? What's the one thing he would have done differently or done more of? You know, his his response was of all the things Billy Graham has done, he said he would have prayed more. Wow. He would have prayed more. So, you just think about a man of God that made such an impact. And the priorities of looking back on his life is not do more. It's I I would want to be more. And what a challenge and a cry out to us as men is is is not a matter of doing more. It's the redemptive story of God to recognize that he can meet you in this moment to spend time with the father is to spend time with God right where you are. And I I I didn't even know our conversation was going to lead towards mo talking about men most of the time today, but this was beautiful. Hopefully uh our women listeners, which by the way, I start off joking about the Botox, the big lips. I feel bad about that. Uh for anybody that's done that,

uh I I want to just say if you've made it this far, if you harbor any bitterness, please forgive me. Um, I just want to say I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Uh, but the reality is, uh, we are all beautiful because God made us and he doesn't make mistakes. Amen. And make sure your husband watches this episode cuz somebody bless. That's right. And God is doing something good. We're we're grateful at Journey Church. I mean, we didn't even get to some of the stuff I wanted to talk about. Uh, church in the park, the kingdom conference that is coming up there. There is a move happening. There is a spark. And really, the greatest move of God is not contrived. It's not something we talk about. It's who we are. That's something anyone can be. So, if I can just close with prayer today. Uh, Lord, I thank you for this time that we could just just get honest and get real. I love just even the idea of confessions that we're just here recognizing we're learning from you. We're on this journey together and we just want to we want to learn from you so we could live like you. There's no one like you, Jesus. You are the best of the best and we're made

in your image. So, let us fulfill what you destined inside of every single one of us. May we be the disciples that transform the world, the what you you've called us to be. So, we we prophesy that over every person that's listened today, that they would have healthy homes, that there would be healthy churches, that God, we would seek uh you because your word tells us if we seek you and seek you with all of our hearts, we will find you. So, we thank you for your grace. We thank you for your goodness. We thank you for your faithfulness today. That God, it's never too late to turn to you. So, we trust you that there's a massive movement, a great awakening upon us that we will be who you've called us to be. And God, men will rise up and be the husbands they that you made them to be. They will be the the the fathers that you've called them to be. Um even those who are not married, those who don't have children, we speak forth in this generation a massive move of godly men.

Uh even upon the children of this generation that they won't wait to discover this, but Lord, early they would uh surrender their hearts to you and and be all completely sold out. And it's not just the men. We're we're we're crying that out upon every person that you've made, man and woman on fire for you in Jesus name. We love you, Lord, and thank you for this time today in Jesus name. Amen. And amen. Thanks for joining us on Confessions of a Pastor. We'll see you next time.