Every Revival Has a Rival

Well, hey, this is our first ever Confessions of a Pastor video podcast. Come on, somebody. I think we call this a VOD, Kara. Do we? Yeah, that's what it's called, a VOD. Except for those who are listening with audio, it's still a podcast. Okay, there you go. So, there we go. We are making history. We are. I really don't know if it's history, but hey, we're doing it. And it's exciting. We've been talking about it for I don't know, a year at least. Yes. We needed our friends who are in the room helping us right now. So, thank you guys for making this possible. And it's gonna be a good one. Kara, I have so much I want to talk to you about. The good, the bad, and the ugly. All for the glory of God. Because God is doing so many great things right now. Yes. I don't even know where to begin. How about we start with a surprise party? Okay. Last night we were at a surprise party. We were.

Yes. It was Justin's surprise party. 40th surprise party, which you threw me a 40th surprise party. You remember? I do. It was a lot of fun. We had a bar. It was a candy bar, everybody. So, just for clarification, we had a full candy bar. I mean, we had tons of candy. It was a lot of fun. Does that seem like a like a lifetime ago? Hey, come on. Well, no, it wasn't a lifetime ago. It's not like a Does it feel like it for you? Yeah, kind of. Okay. I think it's just because we live like 10 years in every year. Yes. I think that's why. Well, it was it was a big surprise party last night and there was a lot of people. And I want to just highlight a story that happened to me. I was just getting food. Yeah. Okay, let's just be honest. I was getting candy at the the food bar and uh a guy comes over and says, "Hey, I got to introduce myself." And uh he says, "My name's Andy and I moved here in May

and I moved here for my girlfriend and I came to a pursuit night. My my first experience of church was a pursuit night." And he's like, "I was having huge issues with my leg. I had pain in my leg. You said come forward if you need healing and I came to you." And he's like, "I asked for prayer and I was immediately healed." And he's like, "I've never had that happen in my life." Wow. And he's like, "All of a sudden, I was just convinced this is real, you know, like this is this is the real deal." And I'm like, "Oh, that's amazing." You know, I'm like, "I'm going with the flow. This is cool." And then he's like, "And then church happened this morning and you're talking about God doing greater works than these, right? And how the Lord Jesus said, "Ask and it'll be given to you." And he's like, "My sister just got diagnosed with cancer. She lives in Texas.

And he's like, I bought a plane ticket right in the middle of the service to go pray for her. Wow. So he's like, I'm going tomorrow to pray for her cuz now I know this works, you know? And I'm like, I'm sitting here at the surprise party going like, God, wow. Amen. Like I can't believe we get to do this. Like it's it's just a a living testimony. And this happened last May. We're in October. Yeah. How many stories are there like that, right? where God's healing people uh their faith is being lifted high and then just to hear the testimony they're right in the middle of the message that this is where the word of God combined with the spirit of God changes everything. Yeah. Amen. So go there maybe what what the the um the scripture that you were preaching on yesterday. Yes. And what what prompted him?

Well, we were in John chapter 14 where Jesus is in the last hours of his life. He's exhorting his followers that he's going to prepare a place for us, those who believe in him. Thomas doesn't know the way. So Jesus says, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. If you've seen me, you've seen the father." Philillip then says, "Well, show us the father, and it's enough." And then in the middle of that, Jesus, I I can almost hear the tone in his voice. I don't know if it's it's the Jesus on the chosen or if it's the Jesus in the Bible, but I can almost hear the tone like, "Oh, come on, Philip." Like, if you've seen me, you've seen the father. And then right in the middle of that, he says, "If he says, in fact, greater works than

these will you do for those who believe in me. Greater works than these." Uh, he says, "You you'll do the works that I've done." That's what he says. you'll do the works I've done and greater works than these. This is John 14:12 I'm speaking of. Yeah. And uh that that's the verse I was speaking of. Then verse 13, Jesus goes on to say, "Ask anything in my name and it'll be given to you so that the father be glorified. Ask anything in my name." He says again in verse 14. And so I think that was the scripture he was referring to. And it's it's an awesome scripture because it's life-changing. It's It's really I told you this morning. It's one of those that almost seems elementary because the longer you're in church, you'll hear it, but it should never be normal. Yeah. Well, I love the way even you you talked about it, you challenged people yesterday when you were at that section of the the message was this should mess with your theology. Yes.

Because the longer you're in church, the longer you hear of it, you just either push it away or you've heard, well, Jesus didn't really mean that, right? Yeah. Yeah. I I started to watch a message last week where I I think the the title of the YouTube message sermon hit me. It was on the scripture. I've told you I I I often listen three, four, five sermons on the same text to try to get a variety of different views and communication and help me understand what I'll be preaching on. And this particular pastor, Kara, he starts off and I'm like, "Okay, I like where he's going." And he's solely committed. I actually had to shut off the sermon because I started to read the comments and someone asked him, "Are you a cessationist?" He said, "Let me be clear. I'm not a cessationist." And for those who are listening, a cessationist are those who believe that the gifts of

the spirit ceased after the first century. So he says, "I'm not a cessationist. However, I do not believe there are miracle workers today. I do not believe that God works miracles through people today." And I just I read that comment. I just had to turn him off. Yeah. Yeah. I'm like, how am I supposed to listen to you talk about greater works than these if you don't even believe that God's doing it today? Right? And what's sad to me is that just open up your eyes and look around the world at the church today in Africa, in Asia, in all over the world, and you're going to like are are you not seeing it right? Are you actually so and this is an American pastor, so are you so stuck in the Western world that you aren't witnessing God work? It's it's a tragedy, but I didn't want to be I didn't need to waste my time listening to that, right? But there are people that believe that Jesus did not mean what the text says in English.

Yeah. That actually it it just simply means uh something uh I I don't even know how to say it. Dumb down or simpler than it is. So to me, it does should mess with our theology. It does mean God is doing greater things. And I talked to somebody after church and she's like, I got this epiphany years ago about this verse, greater works than these will you do. And that is that like now through the Holy Spirit, instead of one person doing the work of God, Jesus, he's using the church, billions of people around the world. I'm like, exactly. Yeah, I'm going Yeah, we all get to be the hands and feet of Jesus. That's what Jesus means. And we will do greater works in these. We the body, his body, we get to do this. Not one person will do just greater works than these, but collectively.

Yeah. And it's for the edification of the church. You know, it's bought to glorify God. Yes. For the edification of the body. Come on. It's it's not for any other purpose other than that. Yes. But it's as I was sharing with you earlier today, like we live in a broken world. We're all broken. But it's sad that we just can't have the vision that God wants to move forward and do greater things than these. And it's it's wild the littlest things that people will get stuck on instead of dreaming forward or having hope for a future or or believing in greater things, actually taking God at his word. like with preachers like that for example I don't know what they do with Mark 16 when Jesus commissions us to go proclaim the gospel and then says actually you will go and you know

the text where you you'll handle snakes and of course we we don't need to we can believe and uh take God at his word that Jesus is real clear in even symbolic language but he he says we will go do uh far greater superior things than we could do on our own. It will require the work of God in our lives to do. Yeah. And I mean the whole premise of our faith is based on a resurrection, right? Like um Jesus defeating death. So why would we not believe in supernatural things, you know? Well, salvation itself, right, requires the supernatural. How else can a sinner go to become a saint? How else can I receive the robe of righteousness that God's gives me? And if it stops there, well, I think we're really minimizing God. Yeah.

Totally. We're we're we're putting him in a box saying, "Well, we've got him figured out, right? This is how he's worked through history. This is how he's working now." And my God, like the testimony we just shared. He does heal people when they weren't even sure if they believed it. Yeah. And then he takes their faith and guess they fly on a plane to go pray for their sister. I'm just like, "That's my God, right? That's the God I want to believe in. And I I know that not everybody's there. And I I don't even think I'm there. I'm still on that journey of like Well, but I mean I think your whole life has been a life of faith. So that's faith, right? It's believing something that you don't have. Yes. Um and I just want more is what I'm trying to say. I just want more of of the Jesus in the Bible. Yeah.

I just I'm I keep falling more in love with God and there's more to know about God. That's where spending time in the book of John so long has been so good. I'm just like, this is so good. Yeah. And what's so good? Jesus, right? He's so good. Yeah. And I just want more of Jesus. Right. And and what Jesus does and Yes. Yeah. I totally agree. And who he is, what that looks like and and the restoration that he brings to humanity, you know. Amen. Partnering with that and is just it's really an honor. Yes. Um but I do think it's it comes with um some uh setbacks. It comes with um right uh people opposing it because you have to um you have to believe by faith that

there is more that God can do more that um that people can be healed, right? And and that is like that's um bigger than a lot of Western American Christianity Christians what they think, right? Because if you can't see it, why would I believe it? Right. It really requires the word of God and the help of the Holy Spirit. Yeah. Or else you only know what you know. Yeah. And that's what we've seen a lot the last few weeks as as I've even tried to like challenge the system of the church a little bit that the government's not going to fix God-sized problems, right? And I'm I'm talking about brokenness in homelessness, drug addiction, suicide. I I'm I'm talking about really big things. We've become a nation addicted to pharmacy drugs and like the church just sits back and we're kind of okay with it. Yeah.

And then last Sunday when I addressed it, it's wild how quickly that stirred the pot of offense. Go there. Well, I would just say you John Ve probably one of the bestselling books he he's done is the bait of Satan. And his argument is the spirit of offense is the bait of Satan. So, as long as you're offended, you don't actually get to see God work because it withholds you from forgiving others and receiving the forgiveness of God. It withholds you from experience grace. It withholds you from the glory of God. And so, like the bait of Satan is just that like as long as you're offended, you you don't get to operate in the fullness of God. And it I'm telling you, Kara, I saw that so much the last week and a half like and even this two weeks, I would say the last few weeks. And it's it's it's

crazy like just trying to get excited like guys, the government's not going to fix this problem, but God can. And what comes out of that? Yeah. Offense. Offense. And I'm like over here like, well, okay, I didn't mean to offend you. Let's let's actually work this out. Like Matthew 18, where did I offend you? Let's work on this and so forth. But the more I've thought about the people I've offended, the more I've come to realize this is actually just an offense. Like it doesn't matter how kind I am. Yeah. Doesn't matter how much I want to reconcile and restore this. An offense, it can only be released by the offender, you know? And that's where it's like it sucks. If you're holding on to offense, it will turn into bitterness. It will hold on to it will turn into a whole slew of issues. And it's it it's it's disappointing because then offense leads us to division and

we're not united. And it's just like all the things that you hope for are found in the devil's tactics. Yeah. So, I think let's talk about a few things that people got offended by last two weeks. Oh, there was a lot. Um, where do we start here? Um, uh, well, two weeks ago it was serve and give. Okay. Well, money always offends people. And it's crazy like what what they hear versus what I think I'm saying is different. And I don't mean that I don't I don't not I'm not generalizing everybody. I'm talking about the one or two or three that get offended. I heard it last night at the surprise party. uh what I would call a recovering Catholic uh is coming to journey. And what I mean by that is he grew up Catholic. He's now trying Protestant evangelical church. And a few weeks ago I talked about money and I actually heard this last night. He got PTSD from the Catholic church and he's like I don't think I need to keep

coming to church. I'm like wow. Like I'm actually talking about storming the gates of hell and it takes money to do ministry but it's more than that. You we trust God with our money. Like there's such a higher level than just getting stuck in the Yeah. So the biblical stewardship of generosity. Absolutely. Which is everything you have is yours. And then that's what I would hope to communicate at church is what does the Bible have to say? What does Jesus have to say? And he has a lot to say. But it does it it it brings up a spirit offense. And so I just, you know, I just t my size and someone tells me their friends offended about that I brought up money. I'm like, "Oh, never mind. I'll never bring it up again then." You know, cynical side, forgive me. Uh so it there's a whole slew of things. I mean it started right after church second service when a woman came up to talk to me last week. That that's when for me it was like okay

it was like oh wow like she had a thick southern accent and she says she's looking at moving to Bend. I'm like oh great awesome te tell me more about she's like well our main thing is we want to find a church. I'm like oh okay. And she's like but I have a lot of questions. I'm like, "Okay, like fire away." She's like, "Well, um, my wife and I, uh, we have two kids and we currently serve in our church in a in kids ministry." And I'm like, "Oh, is that your question? Like, what what's our stance on homosexual marriage?" And Kara, I offended her with that so badly. She's like, "Why would I ask that question? What do you mean by this? Why why would you think that would be my question?" I'm like, "Oh, because I heard you say wife." Yeah. So clearly you're in a homosexual marriage and you're at a church.

Yeah. So I thought maybe you would want to know but I said clearly I just did what Peter did, you know, in my sermon which is he opened up his mouth wide, you know, and uh often spoke without thinking. I said just so you know, my philosophy is ready, fire, aim. I often the bullet goes out of my mouth and then I think maybe I should have aimed that a little different. It's so true. I said I I'm a verbal processor but I said I just heard you're you're in a homosexual rel and she was so angry so quickly. Yeah. And she's like, "Well, then tell me tell me your belief." I'm like, "Well, actually, tell me what your other questions were first." She's like, "Nope, you need to tell me what you believe first." And I said, "Okay, I believe a biblical view of marriage is between a man and a woman. That's what marriage is." Yeah. And anything outside of that is not marriage according to God's word. And she was upset. And I I said, "Listen, I could see her getting upset, but I said,

"It doesn't mean God loves you less." I said, "I'm not better than you. I'm not trying to be better than you." I said, "That's just what the Bible says." and she's like, "This is what's wrong with the church today." And then she started crying. She's like, "Your message is so hurtful and harmful to the LGBTQ community, you know." She said, "Even the stuff you said today about queers, you know, and I had referenced a house we saw that had yard signs that said queer nation representing America." Yeah. I don't agree with that. They have the freedom of speech and we live in such a great nation. They could use that yard sign. But to me, that's a perverseness of sexuality. And I can't stand it anymore. Kara, I don't want to be mean. I don't want to be abrasive. I don't want to be uh um as

I told someone else who was offended about something unrelated, but I'm not trying to be um Oh, what's the word? Starts with a s uh to stir the pot. No, not stir the pot. It's like a uh overly like exaggerating. No, I'm not trying to just be um hyperbolic. Yeah, the the word's going to come to me and I'm going to say it. So, I've got about 25 words in my vocabulary. So, uh I there's a there's a word I'm I'm trying to think of. Um uh I'm not not I'm not trying to just gain uh Oh, sensationalism. Sensationalism. That's the word. That's exactly the word. I'm not trying to sensationalize the problems in our world world today for the gospel. Yeah. I don't think the gospel needs that.

I think the world is so freaking broken. Our president's trying to step into our own state into the largest city in our state and then our governor's totally ignoring it. So, I think we have a huge issue and then the church is over here saying, "I don't know if we should really talk about it." And I'm generalizing the church. I'm talking about me, too. Why am I not talking about this? And so, I just talked about that. And what it did, and I told her, if I was abrasive in my tone, I don't want to be abrasive in my tone, but I have I am unashamed that the gospel is what's going to fix this. And I thought about this gal a lot because we talked for a really long time and I told you like spun me sideways cuz we could not get on the same page. We talked about Charlie Kirk, which I am I am drinking the Charlie Kirk drink today. That is the mint majesty with two honeys,

everybody. And uh it is a good drink and it is really good. uh you're drinking one, too. So, cheers. And she's she was so upset about the church and she specifically talked about Charlie Kirk and she's like, you know, we just can't do what Charlie Kirk did. I'm like, what did Charlie Kirk do? She's like, he weaponized the Bible. And I'm like, whoa, that's strong language. Yeah. Like, help me understand what you're saying because I'm not sure I agree. She's like, well, and I and I said, what do you mean by that? She's like, you know what I mean. I was like, no, I don't. She's like, "Oh, it's like when he says throw rocks at homosexuals, stone the homosexual." I'm like, "Whoa, I don't think he ever said that." I said, "Just so you know, I wasn't a Charlie Kirk fan before his assassination." But it awakened me to who he is. And I started watching his videos. I've never

heard that rhetoric. Never. I said he actually gave a safe space for debate like what I'm hoping you and I will do. Yeah. So, I actually really respect how he offered people with a completely different viewpoint to have dialogue. And I said, "That's what I want with you. That's what I'm hoping we'll do." And so, at the end of the day, to be honest, I'm not even sure she got to her questions because we we ended up just going on and on and on. Well, she did expose at one point that she goes to a church back east. Yes. Or in Georgia. Yeah. Yeah. that fully um embraces their the lifestyle and she serves in kids ministry and things that a little bit disappointing I think. Yeah. I mean we talked about that a lot and you know what struck me Kara since that conversation because it's been a week you know the Holy Spirit like you

sit on things and you over you re-roll roleplay could I have said things different I say anything wrong you know those kind of things. and my heart was drawn to Romans 1. And Paul, you know, he he like he he starts off a book in such a dramatic fashion. I mean, Romans is just one of the most radical uh books. And uh you know, there's obviously Paul saying, "For I'm not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes to the Jew first and also to the Greek." So here we have the invitation that doesn't matter who you are. And I tried to tell her that. I don't I wasn't calling out queers, homeless, and drug addicts, saying they don't have access to the gospel. I'm unashamed to say, I know the answer to that which is broken, and it is Jesus. It's the same answer I need. I

tried to say that emphatically. I need the same hope of Jesus that any other person does. But where I want to go with this is verse 24 of Romans 1. Therefore, God gave them up in the lust of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies, among themselves because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the creator who is blessed forever. Amen. For this reason, God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For the women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another. Men committing shameful acts with men and receiving in themselves due penalty for their heir. like this. If this offends, it's the word of God. I don't want to offend out of again the

the word sensationalizing. I'm not trying to sensationalize homosexuality. I'm trying to draw you to the truth. I'm trying to point you to the truth. And that word lust is an interesting one in the Greek with ethia. Ethma means that you have such a strong desire you have to do it. M so you can lust after more than you know like sexuality. You can lust after the things that it's uh like the definition would be overdesire like I'm overd desiring something and when you overdesire something you're lusting for it rather than have a healthy view of whatever that is. So sexuality it's good created by God right? It's when you start lusting for something like being attracted to the to someone sexually is not wrong. It's when

you it's perverse. It's when it's over or wrong. So, that was one of the many people I offended. And I talked about marijuana. I talked about our own city and that I fielded one of those. Yes, you did. And then that that's one that continually comes back because I mentioned this was the the nature of what I I mentioned is that we're on a street that has a lot of pot shops. Our city alone has a lot of pot shops. And then I I kind of facitiously said, I'm calling it pot shops because that's what we called it when I was a kid, pot weed. But today, like the politically correct term is cannabis dispensary, you know, and then they they they really make them look like luxurious. Yeah. I mean, the devil he he's such a trickster. Yeah. Well, he takes he he takes the truth and he spins it.

Yeah. Like Kara, this is what the church should do. like they should try to make their lobbies look a little more like pot shops because pot shops actually like are trendy and cool. Uh but what they've done is they've created an environment where they've they've normalized, you know, smoking weed as a uh tool to sleep well, to get over depression, to deal with stress, uh to deal with uh chronic uh health problems, pain, you name it. it becomes this kind of cure all even though all kinds of studies are now coming out showing that uh regular addictive uh marijuana use actually creates a whole slew of other problems not just in your lungs your brain but we can get into the scientific medicinal areas but the reality is my

sole purpose was this city is overrun by breweries and cannabis dispensaries that was my sole problem they're substances there's substances and then my root of the issue is on the same street there's hardly any churches. That that was my issue like saying let's let's call forth revival. Right. And I'll tell you people will hear what they want to hear and they hear, "Oh, you're telling me I can't smoke pot." Yeah. Well, I didn't directly say that. I was actually pointing out I would love the church to thrive. I love I'd love more churches on Third Street than pot shops. So, you're missing my point, right? But that particular person came in to the Bible study the very next day. Man, guns are blazing, you know. Yeah. Chin up, shoulders out. Here, here we go. Like, here we go. You're not going to tell my family what to do.

Yeah. She didn't want to have a conversation. She really just wanted to lash into us, myself and uh another leader, Monica. We fielded it and did the best we could, but she didn't really want to hear anything. she really just wanted to lash out that um that you openly speak against pots essentially at the bottom line she was like you have an influential voice and I don't like that that's what you're speaking against and the we tried to communicate to her the heart of it is just it's it's it's um being reliant or or on um a substance it's it's it's using a substance where you uh really need Jesus like Jesus is the solution she would she didn't want to hear it she's like my kid has autism and he uses it my husband is you know has back pain, back pain, and he uses it for that. And we're like, "Okay, there there might be

exceptions that you're missing the whole for." Well, listen, if I could just speak to that person, if they're listening today, I'll just look directly into the camera that I'm right in front of me. Here's what I would say to to that person. Please come to pursuit night on Thursday night. This is our prayer meeting. I would just say, "Petition heaven for the solution that you need." Amen. I I'm not judging you in the substance that you're using. I'm giving you an invitation to a God that heals and helps. Amen. As we study the book of John more, Jesus is going to give some really incredible adjectives and descriptions and names of God himself, the Holy Spirit. And one of them is a a helper. Uh Paul says in in 2 Corinthians 1, he is the comforter.

He is the paricletus, our advocate. Yeah. that if we have a need physically, emotionally, spiritually, he knows us better than we know ourselves. So, inviting God into our lives is better than us just taking the bull by its horn, saying, "I've got this problem." That's what I love about that story I was sharing earlier that I never would have known had I not been getting candy at the food table. And he shared with me, I wasn't even sure if I believe this. And yet, I came up forward for it and I was healed instantly. Like, why not? Why not petition heaven? Why not ask God for his will to be done? Yeah. On earth as it is in heaven. Because in heaven there is no sickness. Yeah. In heaven there is no chronic back pain. In heaven there is no restless nights. There's no sleep in heaven. So I mean like there's just peace.

So I just I I want Pursuit Night to be the biggest service that we have. I'm glad that it's growing and people show up and it's lifegiving. But it should be like standing room only out the doors with an eagerness that I came to have Jesus heal my headaches. I came to have Jesus heal my heart. I came to have Jesus heal my family. To me I all of my point was and maybe it it's always a learning lesson as a communicator like I want to do this more effectively. But to that person who just feels like they have to constantly uh be drawn to the things of this world, that was my greater issue. We shouldn't have chronic homelessness, chronic addiction, chronic sex addiction in Portland. You know, when I called out uh bikini baristas, that was another person

that was offended. There was a mother who was sitting next to her sixth grade child and said that wasn't inappropriate language for a sixth grader to hear. And I'm over here like, listen, driving down Third Street. Yeah. Your child's gonna see Yeah. the pink pussycat purple building with sexual jokes on their marquee. Your child is going to see a building called stars. Yeah. With, you know, clever little depictions trying to get grown men to come look at young women. Your child's going to see that, right? So, if the preacher's not talking about it, your parents better be talking about it. fiction is I I understand the heart behind it, but we we we need to like not let the enemy veil our eyes to the fact that we live in a really evil world and our kids aren't learning this. If they're not learning us from us or the church, Tik Tok teaching them, they're

friends have phones. Like, let's just stop turning a blind eye to reality and start saying, "Okay, we actually need to speak into the church needs to speak into these." I feel like you're doing a lot more of lately, just taking a bolder stance on things. And you know why I would ask you, you know, what's what's the uh the conviction behind that for you, Kara? I'm not getting younger. All right. So, I'm just getting closer to Jesus, right? And I want more people to go to heaven. I want more people to encounter and be transformed by Jesus. And so, the older I get, the the boldness arises in me that I know I'm going to offend people. I've tried peacekeeping, not peacemaking, as Jesus talks about in Matthew 5. We should be peacemakers. But that's not to be mistaken that at the end of the biatitudes, Jesus said, "Blessed are those who are persecuted for

righteousness sake. Blessed are you who are persecuted for my name's sake." And so at this point, I want to take Jesus at his word. And if I get persecuted for doing something right, I have to be okay with that. Yeah. I want to be blessed. I'll take all the biatitudes. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is a kingdom of heaven. One struck me this week like I have pure intentions in this. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. I want to see God more clearly. I want to be able to flip tables if they need to be flipped. I make a whip if it needs to be made. But I also will have the sensitivity that I want to eat with sinners. I I want to heal the lame. I want to touch the lepers. I want blind eyes to see. I want the women who have been suffering for 10 years and doctors couldn't fix them to come to church and touch the hem of his garment. Amen.

And in just one moment, the Lord speaks to their hearts and says, "Daughter, it was your faith." Yeah. that made you well. Like I I that's what I want, Kara. I mean, that sounds like the life of Jesus. I I just want Jesus. That's what Well, and and and like our theme we've talked about, you know, this year is love like Jesus. And that's like that's a really hard call. That's the stuff that you're talking about. And sometimes loving like Jesus means saying the hard things. Oh, in love. I one of the like clearest examples of that to me is in um I think it's John 8. It's that the woman caught in adultery, right? So like he he completely defends her completely, but then he sets her on a new course and says, "Go and sin no more." Like that's love. That is love is to speak the truth. It's grace and it's truth all. Yeah. He he didn't um uh condone adultery.

Uh but he didn't condemn her, right? Uh he set her free from the very setback that could define her life. And he let her know that salvation is going to be your motivation to not sin anymore. I'm your defender. I'm your protector. I am your hope. Yeah. That's that's what I long for, Kara. That's what I want revival to be. That's what I I burn for. Listen, telling the truth does hurt. Can I tell you, we've been married 22 years, and we've said a lot of hurtful things to each other. And a lot of times it's actually in truth, you know, and I think like the the rhythm of like uh marriage is learning to forgive quickly or acknowledge tones and whatnot. But I tell you like when you tell me the truth sometimes I definitely get the spirit of offense, you know, like it's one of those things.

Oh yeah, you want to tell me this? Let me tell you who you are, little miss. I'll tell you what's wrong with you. Okay? And all of a sudden that spirit of offense is in me where I'm not even wanting to learn what's wrong with me. You know, it's like I'm not willing to look in the mirror and see the pimple that's there that I could pop. You know, let's just let's just I'm not Jesus. We're not perfect people. So, it can come out in a way that is condemning or offensive. So, even if it's truth, it can be condemning or offensive. So, I think it's learning yes to yield to the Holy Spirit and how he would have us interact with the world. But what's on my heart right now is we've worked really hard on our relationship recently because we had a hard like it was like a six or seven weeks where it was just like battling every week. It was like the enemy every Saturday was like bringing war into our home to each other. And then we had just

a we we had two or three really intimate moments the last six or seven weeks. One is when you prayed over me which like wrecked me because you just prayed that I would have a voice and I was just like what are you what's happening? like I I just the Holy Spirit met us in our um dining room and I was like, "Go get the oil. Go get the oil." And I had you just anoint me. Well, I I just felt really convicted that there's there's a you have a voice 100%. And the enemy has been after it since you were born. Yeah. And and there's there's a yoke that has to break over them. Like something has to break. Uh because that's what you prayed. That was your prayer is that whatever keeps coming against you would be released in the be released. Like amen. Because it's like if if we feel like a journey a lot of times like it's like three or four steps forward. Yeah.

Two or three steps backwards. And if you really look at the big journey, we're making massive progress and it's freaking amazing. I mean, we got to pause. I mean, I've even had the Holy Spirit use other people to remind me of that. Yeah. One was a Brazilian pastor on a journey around the country last year and a half has visited tons of churches and he's like, "I got to tell you, this is the most life-giving church I've visited across country." He said that to me yesterday and I'm like I'm not taking that lightly. Like wow, you've been to a lot. And he's like, "The Holy Spirit's doing something here." And I'm just like, I I believe you. I I know what I know you're telling me the truth. But it's like when you take those steps backwards sometimes, we get in a fight. You get negative emails, you know, whatever whatever you all the things, you know, it's like the devil is such a good discourager. Yeah.

So, like, okay, we had that night where you prayed and you anointed me and then it's like, okay, it was a few steps forward and then a few steps back. And then finally, it was like enough is enough. Like, we sat down and just like define like we're for each other, right? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. You're not my enemy, right? Yeah. No, I'm not your enemy. I'm No, no, we're not your enemy. And it was like almost like the rules of like communication. Okay. We're both very strong people. Yeah. I I don't know. Like sometimes in marriage maybe you have one strong and one who's more, but we're both strong people. I believe God put that together for a reason, but it's either going to be used for good or for bad. Yeah. And that night it was like um I don't remember what night it was or what day of the week it was. But it was a real big breakthrough.

I mean, it was last Sunday night. It was last Sunday night. Wow. A week ago. A week one week ago. Last yesterday. Um, so it's it was a um breakthrough cuz I Well, let's just be honest, okay? We got married and then we had our first child a year later. Yes. So, we've been raising a family for 20 years, starting a church, leading a church, all the life things, going now most most re recently walking our kids through teenage years that have been very hard. Young adulthood. Yeah. Transitioning them into young adulthood. Um, continuing to lead a church. And it's just it's no joke, you know, like I feel like now we only have one 16-year-old at home and it's giving us a minute to like take a breath and be like it's like we're getting to know each other for the first time after 22 years.

And I keep telling you you're getting prettier and prettier. Like I I'm just like like now people can see you. I'm like, "Oh man." Uh and people always tell me like, "How did you do that?" You know, like how many cows did you give her father? You know, like uh you tried to bring him fish. I brought him from Alaska when I when I asked your dad to for your hand in marriage. Yeah. So I did I asked I asked her dad for her hand in marriage and he said no. And I was like here's some halibit, you know. And he's like no. And I'm like I'm doing it. He's like no you need to live with her. Yeah. He says you need it's hard to live with live with her for live with her for a year. I'm not making comment on that one, but I would just say 20 years, two

years into marriage, 23 years of knowing you, 23 and a half, like I do feel like we're getting to know each other and you're getting to know me. And it's like, hey, who are you? And not just like the whole like Christian psychology, what's your love language, right? No, like a little bit deeper. Yeah. Amen. Not a little bit deeper. Like what's your deepest trauma? Yeah. you know what's what's your wound that like you haven't let Jesus heal yet like that deeper not just like yeah you're meeting my felt needs like that just goes so far it's it's okay and it's romantic and cute and everything and that's fine well that kind of describes what we're talking about that what you're the brokenness we got to confront yeah that's like okay this is deeper than just like safe church messages like we got to get to the root of the issue

and then start to start to uproot it and that's what you're doing that's the Right. That that's that's the heart and and I'm not doing it. We actually have a great team. I'm glad we get to link arms, too. Doing it. So, in some way, you're the the mouthpiece of it. And so, you're the one you're the one that takes all the all the stuff that comes in. Well, that's like I don't remember who coined the phrase, maybe it was Hannah, but someone called me fearless leader instead of pastor years ago. And it's like I take that because I don't know how to be a pastor, but you're asking me to get out of the boat first. I'll do it. You know, like you're asking me to speak out of turn, I'll never betray you, Jesus. Like I will I will. But but like Peter, I want to learn and mature and grow and be like, "No, no, no. Maybe be sober minded. Be watchful. Your enemy is prowling around." So Peter probably did learn the hardest way. And

he was also crucified upside down. So let's go. Here we go. Here we go. Which is very real. I mean, I had someone ask me, I think it was Leanne. Uh we were she's brought in some interns which is amazing. They're so cool. Okay. And um we got to sit in front of them, a bunch of the pastors and leaders here. Um and just kind of pitch uh who we are, what our ministry is, what what we work on. And one of the things in that was Did you pitch your Well, kind of. But none of them wanted to join me. Operations. Operations, right? You want to do spreadsheets? Yeah, exactly. Spreadsheets the building. That sounds amazing. Pay a mortgage. Pay a lease. Yeah. Tons of utilities. interview like I gave my testimony very short but okay one of the things she asked me she's actually she opened it up to all of them to all three of them at the end and she's like do you guys have any questions for Kara and they just looked at me like blank face like

no and then um because I'm talking about buildings and budgets and you know what I mean like this is not sexy things that sounds like school no thanks exactly but then um but then Leanne asked me okay well I'll just ask you this like this was literally on the heels of Charlie Kirk getting assassinated and she's like wow How do you feel about that? And not about Charlie Kirk. That's horrific. About um you being in the position that you're in like and she she's talking about the security team cuz we our security team's amazing. Like they're always right by us. They've continued to increase to create the safest space possible. Yeah. It's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. And so I think it's it's real because of the things that you're that that you're um vocalizing and verbalizing and standing for which is more clear than ever before. Um but in addition to that um uh I I just she's like how do you feel

about this? And I mean it's it's persecution. It's biblical, right? Um and my answer like this is this is my best answer for it is I I genuinely believe that to live is Christ and to die is gain. Like I I actually believe that in my core. So ifians 121. Yeah. If if God if if God call if if he allows a tragedy, it's a tragedy, but I also think that being in the presence of Jesus is so much better than um than here. Yeah. So um I don't even Why did I get off on that? I I know we always talk about like wanting to go home, like wanting to Jesus take us down. Uh where were we going with that? I don't remember. Yeah, that's okay. Uh, but I will say that Jesus is worth something. Jesus is worth dying for

and we don't get security uh out of fear or um just safety. We do it out of the reality that we know. Like I remember a few weeks ago, we were driving home from somewhere and it's like I told you, we were at a conference a few weeks ago and I told you like, "Oh, the devil hates me. He hates me." Cuz it was like I was being accused of something. It's like what happened this summer. Like just when false accusations happen. Like I understand it if I'm preaching about like homelessness and uh homosexuality or whatever and I offend through my tone because I can get a little excited if I'm on the stage. I am a little bit like a monkey or like a you know the pony show you know like I I get it like and I

am unashamed this I don't mind that like I get excited and so if my tone offends somebody okay I could get that. Uh but if it's the truth uh that if if somebody accuses me of something I didn't say or do, that's AC that's false accusations. Totally. And that's happened a lot. Yes. The last maybe two or three years where it's like I didn't do that. I didn't say that. And we were we were at a conference and it's like I was being accused by another church of doing something and I was like this is so weird. This is like another church in town. We should be like united. Like I was just like all I could say to myself was the devil hates me. Yeah. Like he this Yeah. This was this was silly. Like I was just like this is dumb that you even have to use energy to even think bad thoughts about us.

Yeah. That I did something. All we were doing was trying to bless someone. We were trying to bless someone. It was it was kingdom. Yeah. It was really silly. Like it was like I had prayed for somebody and it was like well you didn't ask us for permission to pray. I was like what like I didn't literally in the purest sense right? We didn't plan this. We didn't we weren't even like it was just prayer. Yeah. You know like prayer is like spontaneous and inviting communion with God over somebody like I never would have thought that would be used Yeah. against me you know to other people or whatever you know. So it is wild how the devil tries to disrupt, you know, the kingdom work. Yeah. The devil hates it overly overly tries to um destroy what God is doing. And I think, you know, one of the

ways he's tried to do it with me personally is through discouragement. Yeah. I, you know, I we all have our our own little insecurities or uh you know, um issues from the past or whatever. And I think if I would get discouraged, then I would stay in the same place or space. And it's like I think the devil just wants to keep us there. Yeah. But this isn't our first rodeo, right? I mean, we've we've been doing this a while. Like I've been in full-time ministry 28 years, Kara. That's a long time. A long time. 28 years. Like that's like a whole lifetime for some people. Yeah. You know, and I just I look at the stuff we've been through. I mean, I was threatened with my life long before we had good security teams, long before the Charlie Kirk assassination.

That guy that I'm speaking of that comes immediately to my mind. He threatened my life online. We got the police involved, but it was really just like online threats. So, people were alert that day is when we were at in downtown and uh he did show up that day. Did show up in the building. did come try to find me and he was stopped from finding me and uh someone asked him to go outside. So I was like first of all how do you get in the building? Second of all, you know, like what's going on here? Like someone called the police and uh he went outside and a huge confrontation between what was then an executive pastor and we ended up calling the police. He left before the police came.

Yeah. Later that day, he barricaded his roommate in his room. Yeah. And would not let him go. Yeah. SWAT teams had to show up and everything. He ends up getting arrested and going to prison for kidnapping. And that was a guy saying, "I am going to kill you, Pastor Keith." And that was a language. It was that like, "I'm going to kill you, Pastor Keith." He was on massive drugs. Massive drugs. And he had so many issues. I would sit with him one week and he'd be like, "Pastor Keith, I'm getting you two here. Bono's going to play a journey and we're going to change the world." You know, and I would just like I would be kind to him. Hey, let's pray and let's finish up this meeting, you know? I'd pray with him and he would leave and then he would go on these rants online. So, he never to my face was like ever aggressive.

But, um, it was definitely one of those realities that was like, "Oh." And then he went to prison I think for five or six years for that for the kidnapping. Then he got out of prison. And then I heard through the grapevine because of people that are we've got such a recovering community at Journey and so forth. People are like, "Hey, so and so got out of prison. He wants to meet with you and apologize for everything." I'm like, "Oh, wow. No, I'm good. I forgive him. Just tell him I'm good." You know, like I'm actually totally totally fine. So, I only tell the story to say like we've we've had those sort of things happen before. We've had disgruntled people. You've been yelled at, you know, uh by a pastor's wife once. I mean, you screamed at, you know, like I mean, we've had

we've not our first That's true. Not our first rodeo. That's true. Yeah. So, what we haven't talked about is baptisms last Sunday. Do you want to touch on that at all? Yes. Yeah. I was thrilled with what God did. Yeah. Because uh of the stories of who got baptized. Uh I was praying for 30, Kara. I wrote in my journal. I said, "Lord, 30 is not too hard for you, right? I mean, there's there seems to be this massive movement." I thought God was going to blow my mind and I was going to be like, "Yeah, you you of little faith. You know, look at this. God did so much more." So, I wrote down in my journal the day before, 30, Lord, give me 30. And um for your glory. And um so then the next day is like we did baptisms and there was 13. So I was like, "Oh, maybe I heard you wrong, Lord. 1330. They sound the same way." But I I meant 30, Lord. I wrote down 30. And but we got

13. And um you know, sometimes I'm a little discouraged when I don't hit like I wouldn't even call them goals, but like you're just bringing requests before God, you know, like, "Okay, God, here's what I'm hoping you'll do, you know, like." and we got 13. But they were really cool stories. They were really cool stories. One that stood out to me was uh someone that came up and said, "Hey, my friend just got baptized." He may even say, "My best friend," and he he goes on to explain he just got out of rehab two months ago and he was a Muslim, but I brought him to church here, you know, and he's he's coming with me and he's explaining this and then he's like, "And then you guys are doing baptism." I told him, "You got to get baptized." He's like, "No, I'm not ready to get baptized. I need to be a better person. I need to do more." And he's like, he got to explain gospel.

Amen. Gospel is not what you could do. And I, for me, it was like so exciting because I've always had this weird fantasy that I want to like baptize Muslims because like Islam is the second largest religion. And they're I I I believe some statistics would say they're even growing faster than Christianity. And with Christianity, you got to include like the Catholic Church. And it's like, so I'm like, Islam is like growing. So I'm like, we got to do something about this. Like the devil is trying overtime, you know, and and these reaching men, particularly young men are attracted to Islam. And so I've just had this desire, but you know, we're in central Oregon, which is there's not a whole lot of Muslim influence here. There's not a lot of refugees. there's not a lot of diversity ethnically, you know, so here I am like

desiring something in a place where it's like, you know, like I so it's kind of ironic cuz anyways, it's my been my desire. So when I heard that testimony, it was just like, yeah, when we just kicked the devil right in the face, he lost three teeth with that one. So thank you, Jesus. This this young man's name was Jordan. And I was just thrilled. And yeah, I just his hand was shaking when he was getting baptized. and to hear him profess Jesus to hear him say that Jesus has forgiven him of his sins. That's it. You know, identity shift right there. So, uh I was really stoked and thrilled. I don't know if anything stuck out to you on that Sunday. You did the towels with me. I did, which was super fun to be that close. Yeah. Um I know there was a gal and I I don't actually I know I've got someone in the room that knows the story better than I do. Maybe she can uh contribute

fill in the holes. Yeah, cuz I don't remember all the all the details. I just know that um a husband of a gal who I've known for a couple years comes to the church and I didn't I didn't realize where her husband was, you know, spiritually or anything like that. Well, he ends up getting baptized on Sunday. Um which was super cool. And I know there's a lot more of that story. I just don't remember. Um but I think he wasn't coming to church, was he not coming to church for a long time? Okay. So, he was not coming to church for a long time and then comes to church and decides he needs to change his life and radically says yes. Yeah. So, it's no longer just like watching like and from a distance. We're not even talking about in the stands because that journey we talk about like the difference of being in the stands versus on the team. We're not talking about like even going to the game, you know, like so so you want to go do that. That's not for me. Well, I honestly I didn't even realize who it

was until later when his um video got posted and um she reposted and then I realized I put the connection together. It was her husband. That's so cool. He's really like he's really changing lives. These are souls who are being changed and then family lives will be changed. Like he really is he really is moving here which is really um it's really an honor to even just be a part of it. Amen. And you know it doesn't take more to do more. It it takes a fully surrendered life to Jesus. Amen. And so, you know, I I I can request that God's, you know, baptizes everybody, but if they're not on fire for Jesus, it doesn't matter. You know, like at this point, like you get 13 people that sincerely mean it, it changes everything. And I I I'm just

like so in awe of what God's doing right now because it's different. And so I feel such a deep need to prophesy revival, to prophesy great awakening. Even though like there's always that like doubt and flesh and you know that man inside of you that reverts back and it's like can you will you what does right you know and then you just get those little speed bumps that are like all right but I will also say like you know talking to a Brazilian pastor who just had like kind of that Brazilian fire. Brazil is really interesting because the church there is exploding with Holy Spirit fire and it's huge or it's not at all. Okay. You know, it's like massive agnostic superstitious religion. Yeah.

A lot of Catholicism but not like devout and and there's a lot of superstition. A lot of super but a lot of just like like not devoted to anything. We know some Brazilians. Um, but this particular guy is on fire for and like when they worship there, they worship like I mean there's they can fill stadiums like this and worship Jesus down there. And this guy was seemed to have that Holy Spirit fire and and it was just like a reminder to me like when he was encouraging about the church, it was it was encouraging like to hear what we're doing. Yeah. You know, and even going to that surprise party last night, I don't know how many people were there, but there was a seemed like a lot. And even one particular guy, I just share this story. He thanked me for journey and I was like, and he's like, "Do you ever just sit back and look at what God's done, you know, you and your wife and say, look what we look what we've done." And

I was like, "No." I was like, "It's not that it's like this is war, you know, like you're sitting back, you're like recovering, you know, like today's Monday. It's the holy hangover day, you know, like it's like." And so he was really sweet, but he's like, "Think about this." is he like I love Journey. He's like he's like all these people are connected with church and he's like this is the best place and he's like there's no other place where I could go to church with my ex-wife who's now married and I could serve on a team. And he's like I just love pouring into other men. He's like and we're okay. We're both growing in the Lord. And he's like what where else could we do that? Like come to the same space and raise a kids even though we're divorced. And I'm like I'm like looking I'm like man this sounds like some messy Jesus

stuff and I'm just like I love it. Like it's it stood out to me. I'm like I love that we get to do the Jesus stuff. Yeah. I totally agree. And I'll just talk a little bit about uh what? So last night this just it's just like the cutest story. I actually really my heart just really I know where you're going. I just have to tell the story. Maybe hopefully one day we could share the song. I don't know. But, um, yeah. So, uh, this particular person, he's a he's a DJ. He actually DJed our our oldest daughter's wedding. He a great phenomenal job. Like, y'all need a GJ? Let us know. Yep. Exactly. He'll get you dancing. Yeah. And so, he had everybody dancing last night. I mean, it was like super fun. And then we were trying to sneak out of the bath.

So, this is what's funny about the story. Literally, we were there longer than we said we were going to be there cuz we're exhausted. Yeah. Night. Yeah. I I literally had it like at that point I've been out of the house for 14 15 hours. My eyes feel like um they've got sandbags trying to like close themselves. It was a great party, but we're like we both just agreed like, hey, let's slip out of here. We don't really need to say bye to anybody. Back. I grab my keys from the table and I'm not but two steps and like it's like almost like that party in a movie like everybody's dancing and the DJ goes, you know, like and then he's like, "Hey everybody, it looks like Pastor Keith is leaving and there's like a hundred people in the room. Everybody's like,"

you know, and and I'm like humiliated. I'm like, I just want to get out. I've got my keys in my hand. and he's like, "Before he leaves, I just want to share a song that has to do with him." And he took snippets of a sermon. I don't know if it's one sermon or two sermons. I think it was a few because it was some of your like key things, you know, that you that you like um encouraged often. Yeah. So, I think he I think it took him some work. He took a bunch of snippets and then he like blended it in. It's like electronic music. It's like, "Yeah, come on. Come on. Come on." Like there's hope for everyone. Word. We're we're like so like I'm sitting there and you know when he sent me the song a couple weeks ago or whatever and I listened to it and I think I showed you and like all right that's fine that's cute this is fun but now the whole room is like looking at me and I'm like I don't I don't get

embarrassed of often but I definitely was like but what was my cheeks were red what was actually so cool I'm actually red right now even thinking about it like thinking of everybody looking at me like okay but what was so cool is the people in the room were like they were like repeating it. So it's like it's stuff that you've ingrained into the culture here that has impacted people. Amen. Like it was like at one point it was, you know, every Sunday you're like hold up your Bible word and everyone literally like practically everyone that came to Journey, which is most of us word. I know. And then it was like this is the word of the Lord. You know, this is the word of the Lord. And what I I guess what I love about it is it's it's um it's just a representation of a life that was changed. Okay. And he is trying to give back. Like he's taking his gifts and his passion and he's using it for kingdom. And that's like Amen. Let's go. My dream.

Praise God. Every person. Every person. Even the people in this room are doing that right now. You use what God's given you, how he wired you. Then you say yes where he's put you. We're all better. It's explosive. That that's how the kingdom goes. where revi we that you've been saying this for years and I've believed you but it's it's also evolved but now we're seeing it something that's more uh it's deeper in my mind it was very um my original thought of it was very um juvenile it was very superficial it was like okay let everyone the church will thrive when everyone use their gifts let's hold hands come on yeah but it this deeper now it's like uh we all have a calling we have spiritual gifts we have passions that God has imparted in us we are made in his image Y we are creative because he's the creator.

And when we actually allow God to work through those things, the kingdom is impacted in a way that it would not be impacted if if ifraise have written that song and put that song together in that moment wouldn't have happened. It was actually a really cool moment and it was a a cool moment also for the other people in that were in the room that have that have never been to Journey that actually don't even know Jesus. I think that it it spoke volumes to them. Yeah. About just like uh church can be fun. Even the first line in the song was like uh church should be a celebration. Yeah. Yeah. I totally agree. Song started. We should be a kingdom of celebration. It's okay to have fun. Yes. You know, like of course there's times of seriousness and of course there's time for those things, but there's also a time Jesus clearly ate a lot of meals. Yeah.

He clearly drank wine. You know, I mean, there are certain things that you look at with Jesus, like he was probably having a blast walking on the water, coming out to the disciples, right? We often make it so serious at the middle of a storm, but I don't know why we have to just have a serious Jesus. We also can have a celebration Jesus. Amen. And I I I do agree. There there's a there's a time to to to rejoice and there's a time to grieve and that the church should do that together. Yeah. And uh I absolutely I I totally agree. There's there's so much that God's doing right now, Kara. And it's just think he's just getting started. Yeah. This is just the beginning of greater things. And I don't know, did is there anything we didn't cover that we wanted to cover? I covered at least a few, but now my mind's going blank on some of the things. I'm like, I can't wait to talk about Yeah. XYZ and ABC. I I would just say in in the spirit of saying we're a family, we've also as a family goes through good things and we go through hard things. We had a family

member lose a husband last week. Um and that was just, you know, tragic. Yeah. Um we've uh she they're um the oldest daughter is best friends with our daughter. We're good friends with our daughter and and walking alongside that has been really really hard. Yeah. It never gets easy. No. No. It's uh that's one thing I I don't got the holy hangover tiredness today. So gets me more emotional. But yeah. Yeah. Death is never it's inevitable. And it's funny cuz just the day be the day of I had preached that like come on everybody's going to die. You can't be surprised about this like even as you're yearning and saying like we're okay dying like but then when like someone does die. Yeah. Especially a tragedy.

Yeah. And and family and when the kids and it impacted our daughter, you know, she was all week it hit her pretty hard. Yeah. Um for her friend's sake, you know, like just grieving and Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's it's life. It's a part of life. Um the beauty of church is that we we can come together. Yeah. Amen. Um in times of suffering and need and support each other like you know we've tried to rally the church to even financially support. I just think that's what the church does. That's amen. You look at the early church in the book of Acts and they met each other's needs. That was a part of Yeah. It's a part of kingdom. Amen. Well, I agree with you. It's a reminder to me, Kara, like every Sunday, like doesn't matter how many people are there, there are people around you hurting more than you know. Yeah.

There, you know, there's there's cancer journeys, there's drug addiction journey, there's marital journeys. I mean, there's people that look good and their marriage is just miserable, you know? There's people are hurting and there's broken and really like as cliched as is that we shout it every week. There's hope for everyone like there it has to be true or I don't want to do this. Yeah. Amen. I just Jesus either is the solution or like I mean we say this about pastors that are like preaching and then like on the side having like sexual affairs and drug issues and like I'm like we've said this like why don't you just quit and be a pagan? Yeah. Like why preach Jesus and have secret sin? Like just I don't get it.

You know, you want to do homosexual things like quit preaching Jesus and go do that. You know, like I mean just I I don't I guess I'm being facitious but truthful too. Like it just like the Jesus thing meet you in your mess. Yeah. And and we all have brokenness and mess we need him to meet us in. And I think today we've covered the whole gauntlet. Yeah. from offense to celebration to uh to even grieving. Yeah. And I just I think that's something we could even leave in prayer today for hope for our listeners that whatever you're walking through, Jesus is our hope. I'm grateful we can do this. Grateful for those that have helped in this podcast and we hope to do this more often. It just it's it's our opportunity to have free counseling and uh and really actually see that God does work in the bad. Uh he does work all things together for good for those who love him,

who are in Christ Jesus. He does even work things through the ugly and certainly even through the good. We're going to give God the glory no matter what. So, uh it's been a good conversation, Kara. It has. And I'll just close us in prayer. Okay. Well, Lord, today we just we give you everything we said and say, would you please be honored and glorified through the words that we've said today? And even more, I just ask for prophetic revelation that God, we would seek you and find you. that it would spur on uh a contagious attraction to want more of you, Jesus, to get into your word, to discover you more, to see the real Jesus, to believe in you and invite you, Lord, into everything, including even as was mentioned today at the end, the blaming family. We just invite you, Holy Spirit. We invite you. We we're going to

trust you that you you actually are God that walks through with us. I think of Psalm 23. Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I'm not going to give up on you, God. I'm not going to fear the devil when I don't know what's happening. In fact, I I I will trust in you. I will lean into you. You comfort me, Lord, even in the dark valley. So God, I I commit this time to you and I ask God for a great awakening in our lifetime. I thank you for what you're doing around the world, not just in America, but we just declare over the state we live in that Oregon shall be saved. We declare it over our city and we just ask God that you would continue to do more. So with that said, we just are praying for protection against the enemy. We're praying for a Holy Spirit uh just awakening to happen in our lifetime. So we thank you that this is

possible because of who you are. If you defeated death, you could do this in our day. So thank you for being the God that we read about in the Bible in Jesus name. Amen. Amen. Hey, thanks for joining us. Amen. See you next time.