The Kingdom Isn't Quiet

Hey, welcome confessioners. This is Confessions of a Pastor. We are pastors Keith and Kara. And listen, we're going to talk about the good, the bad, and the ugly. All for the glory of God. Amen. I'll tell you, being a pastor is surreal, is it not, Kara? It is very I mean, it's surreal in the sense that like your faith is your job, and your job is your life, and it's your life is your faith, and your faith is your job. It's it's just interesting. I mean, everybody's faith should be in everything, but when you're a pastor, it doesn't stop. It's 24/7. And I'll tell you, the last few weeks, we've been going 247. Yes. It's been a whirlwind. It's been awesome. We have so much to talk about. Not just because this world is weird right now. Congress is talking about UFOs. Gas prices are soaring. But in the kingdom realm, I'm telling you,

God is moving mightily. I mean, God is always moving because he's always eternal, always good. But there there's a shift happening. There's something happening in in the world that we're living in, a spiritual world that we we've got to talk about. The last few weeks have been wild. Yes. I mean, we we have not talked about the last few weeks on a podcast. So, I think we just got to go there because we've been going hard. We've been going so hard. You got sick. Yeah. Because we were running on all cylinders at all hours and then eventually I think your body just went boom. Yes. It's true. which is not abnormal. I mean, we traveled last week to the east coast and traveled in the middle of the night both days. Yes. I think that's what did it. Yeah. Losing three hours each day or, you know, I mean, three hours each way is it's it's it's an interesting thing.

So, I want to go back in time, Kara, because and then maybe work our way up to today. We'll see how far we get on this podcast today. Uh, we had uh our second marriage conference at Journey Church. It's been a desire of mine for many years because if you have healthy marriages, you have healthy families, you have healthy families, you have a healthy church. If if we just look at America right now, the world, maybe not America, you look at the world, we have a crisis when it comes to marriages. Marriages are struggling. They're flailing. They're privately, they're so many on the brink of divorce, but not publicly displaying it. Yeah. And we went there. We've got had the guests Montel and Christian Jordan. Yeah. I think we could now testify postconference. We were both nervous. We didn't know the Jordans very well. Uh our uh registrations for the conference weren't

exactly what we uh we were hoping they would be. But it was still great. It was a full conference. We had several hundred people there. And then I think the Jordans blew us away. Yeah, they were awesome. It was awesome. I mean, they went straight into the Bible and they just gave us a fire hose of going to God's word that we've got to be okay here. Yep. To be okay here, right? That we can't just start with our marriages of, hey, let's fix what's broken, which everybody's got brokenness, but let's just start with our relationship with God. And the other thing I feel like that was really profound for at the marriage conference that they brought to the table, no pun intended, was to they took the um this the lightsaber and gave it as an example of um um of divorce essentially and then putting it on the table and saying um

taking it off the table saying divorce is off the table. It's not even an option. It's not an option. And so as we um as we journey through our marriage and through life, if we take that option totally off the table, now we have um a safe space to actually work through problems because if we're always saying, well, let's just get a divorce, then that's an out. So they essentially took the out off the table, which I appreciated. And it wasn't without it wasn't just like this cliche, hey, we're not going to talk about divorce, divorce off the table. It was under the understanding of God's covenant that if I if I'm committed to this Yes. And this is where we get into really hard teaching. Yes. And this is what God's teaching us right now, which is overflowing into our church, that quite frankly, some people don't want to sit and wrestle with.

We've been talking a lot about that, which we can come back to later as well, that hard teaching is hard. Yeah. And so if marriage is a covenant between God and a man and a woman, so it's not just a man and a woman. You're inviting God in it. You're committed to this. The the imagery they gave was the cord of three strands in Ecclesiastes that we're tied together. So there's no option. If I'm going this way, you're going with me. If you're going that way, I'm going with you. And it's inviting the Lord into every area of our life without excuses. Yes. I think where we have excuses today is you're not meeting my needs. I'm offended by you. You've hurt me deeply. And then that that just crazy cycle regurgitates until eventually people do get divorced. Yeah. And then the you know the reason for divorce on the divorce papers is irreconcilable differences. Right.

So we can't come on we can't come to an agreement. Yeah. And that's I mean we've that happens in relationships in friendships of of course in marriage like and and we're not this is the crazy thing. People look at pastors sometimes be like well you're pastors you don't understand what our marriage like. Hey we've been through our own hell. We go through our own battles, our own fights, and they're ugly and they're messy. So, when the teaching of God's word gets real, it hits us the same way it should hit any heart. And so, it is it is very real because there's a point when you do throw up your hands and be like, I don't think we're going to work this out. Well, you're not unless you invite the Holy Spirit, God himself, and God's word, and you have to be obedient and abide in it. Yes. And that is you have to do hard things like love your

enemies. Uh Kristen Jordan powerfully described at her husband at her worst. Yeah. She was determined when everybody said, "You have biblical grounds for divorce. I'm going to speak life into this." Yes. Even though it's not, I'm going to speak as though things are. My husband is faithful. My my husband will be the head of this house. That was really profound for me because um I it it was incred what a cool picture number one of um what we're talking about is of a covenant relationship that we don't give up on. Okay. And then so what happened celebrated on that Sunday he also preached Montel also preached a message but there was a gal that came up to Kristen and myself at the end of one of the services and she had been at the marriage conference and she very much struggling in her marriage. Okay.

Um with a lot of things and um what Kristen did was like it was really profound for me because it was exactly what you're talking about and she like she modeled it. Wow. for this this woman. And it was it was she pulled up scripture and said, "We're going to pray and prophesy this over your husband and this over your husband and this over your husband even though it's not who he is now. We're going to prophesy that it will be and she and she was honest though and she said this could take years." I was just going to say it's it's a journey. I think we would we in America, Western world, I'm I'm just gonna generalize. We like quick fixes. Yes. We think if we pray, God's just going to, you know, change somebody. Yeah. If my husband, my wife, my kids, my the church. We're not willing to wrestle in the long term. Yes.

Of can I see this through? And it it's the phrase that man, I I've got so much I want to talk about in this podcast, but I don't know if we're going to get everywhere. I had a man step into my life recently. I I'm not going to name him yet, just but like a prophet, almost like an angel of the Lord coming in to minister me at such a time. so weird. And he gave me a phrase a few weeks ago when we first met on the phone. We've never met in person. It's just the most interesting thing. And he gave me this phrase that the Lord doesn't move quickly. He moves suddenly. Yeah. That's so profound. It is like the more you wrestle with it, you see it in your whole prayer life. God doesn't move quickly. Like we we expect God to move quickly. So there is like a repentant spirit of Lord, I expect that when I pray it like a vending machine, you're just I press A2 and this is going to pop out. Yep.

In Jesus' name. But when you really I I love what you're sharing about what Kristen shared with her because it's disciplehip now. I'm going to show you what God has shown me. It's in God's word. Yes. Now you have the choice to be obedient to God's word. And here's the hard part. You have to stay faithful to God's word. Yeah. That's where it gets hard in the long run. A true disciple. Put it into practice. Yes. I mean, disciple means discipline. You've got to have the discipline now to actually, if we're going to say love your enemies, if your spouse is your enemy, which your enemy could come in many different forms. Can you love them? Yeah. And most people, like you said, no. Irreconcilable differences. Let's move on. The grass is greener. They had so many good phrases at the marriage conference. I mean, listen, you could

get divorced. And people say, "Cut your cost. You get half of it." Yeah. Hey, wife, you get half of what he has, half of what he's made. And it's like there was such a great phrase of, "Okay, you see, I could get half, but God says I could stay and get all of it, you know, and you got a testimony. Look what we've overcome." And you've got the intimacy of growing through it. Yeah. I mean, I I love this this picture of covenant, too. I mean, I I don't think that we go into a marriage relationship in America with that in mind as much. So, just the reminder of this is a covenant relationship. It will last our entire lives or it's supposed to, you know. Um so, and I actually I um heard a really excellent message on even covenant friendship like a year ago, a gal at the father's house, Hillary Harris, gave

just a beautiful message that I watched because it was really impactful to me on covenant friendship. Wow. And it's it's the same idea of like we don't if if we have if if if you've offended me or if we have a disagreement about something, we don't cancel each other. We don't and we've talked about this on this podcast and it's what the Lord I think is like doing in our personal lives and in in our church is let's just let like let's just see what it really means to live in the king in in God's kingdom. And um and a part of living in God's kingdom is not giving up on people. It's not it's not being offended to the point where we cancel other people. This is a cancel culture. It's what we are raising our kids in. Like it is a culture of cancellation, but God's kingdom is the opposite of that. And so, um, I just love the reminder of the truth of it's a covenant marriage.

We have covenant friendships. Like, we don't cancel each other. Well, let's just camp on that for a second. We've talked about it a lot on this podcast, but I do think it is a massive problem and issue in the world that we live in because Christians have adapted. Yes. This really I I mean I'll use spiritual language. A demonic way of life of of of cutting off. Yep. Of division. And Christians have justified it spiritually. Yeah. And we see this a lot in the world. In fact, I I really should not even be on social media as much as I am. But I see this all the time that people are constantly looking for what's wrong in pastors, looking for what's wrong in the church and then I'm going to post it to the world, celebrate what's wrong to get

everyone to hate it, to declare an enemy, to declare it's wrong, to say it's wrong. And this is in the name of I'm right, you're wrong. Let's cancel the person wrong. Totally. Instead of gently, kindly, all fruits of the spirit, bringing to the truth, correcting. Yeah. as the book of James would talk about, as Jesus taught us to do, as the epistles model very clearly that if someone's in the wrong, you don't just tell the world what's wrong. You come alongside like we we listen, nobody's always right all the time. Yeah. Ain't nobody God but God, right? So, for us to play the role of that, and I'm generalizing, so it's it's a little bit extreme, but I think the frustration is like this happens all the time. I see

it when I offend somebody. They're quick just to get mad and angry. You know, when I posted we were in DC last week, there was a couple of really aggressive, hateful, mean comments. They weren't, "Hey, can I better understand your heart? Hey, can we sit down and talk about this?" It was, "I am never going to your church again." I'm like, "Whoa, that's pretty strong language." Yeah. You know, and I had a pastor on this trip tell me. He's like, listen, that person wasn't in fellowship to begin with. You know, they're making language to make you, you know, to hurt you, but the reality is they're not a part of your church. Attending church once in a while. Yeah. That's not church. That's not that covenant. No. Friendship relation that that we're not in the covenant if we're not the body. Yeah.

The body rejoices together, but the the body also grieavves together. Yes. Yes. And there's there's a lot we can learn from that. Bringing it into marriage, into the church. So, the marriage conference so good. It was really I mean I had several people thank me yesterday for that and I'll tell you those are investments I won't regret. Yeah. You know here we we were wondering going into it and then coming out of it it's like ah God you're so good. Yeah. Amen. You know and then he preached a message on Sunday which was a really hard message. It's it's a it's part of this kingdom series. Yes. And like you said yesterday in your message that this studying kingdom is just completely rocked or the word used was wrecked you. Yes. And it's a really bittersweet thing to be wrecked, I feel like, by truth because it's like it's equal parts incredible and really, really, really hard.

Oh, it really is, Kara. I It's like it's it's the most cliche example that, you know, pastors use all the time, but it's like the Matrix, you know. It's like taking the pill and seeing the world as it really is, you know? And I I genuinely would say like there's so many moments in my life as a Christian, I feel like I've popped the pill and I see things as they actually are. And then as I mature, I realize I haven't seen things as as they actually are. There's more. There's more. I can until we're with God in glory. We only see in part. The scriptures say, you know, so it's like we're only seeing in part, but the more I get to see, the more I realize how much I don't know. Yes. And this this kingdom series has wrecked me, Kara. I mean, in a tremendous way. It's like I'm like, "Wait a second. This is like what Jesus preached." Yeah.

And I don't think I've heard that my whole life. I mean, yeah, maybe. I I think they I'm not saying everyone's gotten it wrong, and I'm not throwing the baby out with the bath water. I'm not being like, "Oo, I finally got it right." That's not my point at all. I just think there's like this under teaching, under uh practice. I think that's where I actually think that's where it comes in because I'm sure you know through you've preached that through the biatitudes like like we've heard these messages. Okay. So I think it's just a next level of accountability or a next level of conviction that like we have to move beyond just an academic Bible study or understanding to we have to we have to move into a deep

the next step which is actually doing it. Amen. Well, like in in I was reading the book of Luke the other day. Jesus says, "Who are my brothers and my sisters?" They're the ones that do do they do the word. Come on. They live in my kingdom in such the way that I've um created it to be. Amen. Montel and Christian talked about at the marriage conference and then he solidified again on Sunday and I really see this in the teachings of Jesus. There's a big difference between listening and hearing. You can listen and you can know things. You can argue them. You can use apologetics. You can continue to go to Bible studies. You can continue to go to church. You can continue to grow, learn, watch messages, do all those things. But you haven't really heard the message unless you're doing the message. And this is why it's wrecked me, Kara, is

Jesus is emphatic. And I knew these things. I've known these things for years, but like I really feel a higher conviction right now than ever before. Jesus really did say love your enemy. Yeah. Well, and I'm thinking Matthew, you know, uh 25, the separation of the sheep and goats. Yeah. He really did say you thought you got it. Yeah. You know, like you you you're going to say one day, didn't we do this? Didn't we do this? He says, "But whatever you did, whatever you did to the least of these, what it unless you did it, I didn't ask, you know, do you know it?" Yeah. Do you know these things? you know, but whatever you did and over and over the sheep and the goats, the the wise and the foolish with the lamps, you know, the weeds and the wheat, they look really similar. They're growing in the same space, in the same place. I mean, over and over, Jesus is giving these

examples, the good fish and the bad fish, they're caught in the same net. I mean, over and over. Yeah, it's pretty wild when you really study it. Yeah. I told you this morning like this is crazy. like 50%. I mean, this is the statistically what Jesus is modeling in the parables. I don't know if it's an actual number, but it's like and these aren't talking about the the heathen, the those that are outside. He's talking about those that are inside. Yeah. Think they got it. They don't get it. That's so hard. you addressed that yesterday in your message and um I don't know how people to take that kind of thing, but it's it it it's truth and it is a it's a it's a heavy weight for a leader for for the pastor of the church to carry. Yeah. I I was very emotional. I told you this morning like I had to shut off, you know, like when my valve hits, I'm

talking about tears. Uh sometimes it doesn't want to stop. And so it started first service and I realized I got to get this under control. Second service it started again but I stopped it much quicker cuz I'm just like my heart is broken. I mean I even right now just thinking about my heart's broken that there's people coming to church that think they're saved. They think they can repeat the gospel which is Jesus died for my sins. He rose from the grave. I've believed and I'm forgiven. That in in a nutshell it is the gospel. Yes. But it's what we've said on this podcast just through conversation. And let me just say like we we're unscripted here. There's no notes. We've not prepared anything. So we'll say something that will offend someone. It's like, okay, we're just having a conversation about this. But one of the things I said on the last podcast that was either misunderstood or cause an offense was people that say they're Christians that

don't live out the way of the scriptures. I'm talking about Jesus teaching. I'm not talking about this isn't your opinion, pastors. This is my opinion. This is the authoritative word of God. And Jesus said, you could tell a tree by its fruit. And a good tree doesn't bear bad fruit and a bad tree doesn't bear good fruit. And I I can go many many scriptures on on top of that. But to say I'm not sure they're saved, you know, and when I make a statement like that, I'm not saying they're not saved. I'm just not sure. Yeah. Like I I I I can't say with certainty as a pastor the people I've discipled, and this is on me. Yeah. I I'm going to be held accountable to the Lord on this. I want people to be saved. I want them to I want them to love who Jesus told us to love. Yeah. Cuz they're loving Jesus when they love it. I mean, I I think about this like I love this church so much, Kara.

You and I have tried to run from it so many times. It's kind of like marriage, you know? It's like it's like, "Hey, maybe divorce would be better." It's like that that's a lie, you know? It's like just stick through this and it's going to make it. And I love this church and there's been times I've wanted to divorce it, you know? Like, ah, it's tough. It'd be easier to run. But I tell you, every time I stick around, I'm like, "Oh, thank God I didn't run." You know, because I love this church there. We have always like had an affinity for broken I mean broken people, you know, and sometimes people who are clean don't understand that and it's hard to be around broken people. Specifically, I even want to just mention like homeless. There's a guy that's been off and on at our church for 10 plus years. His name's Logan. He's homeless. He's chosen to be homeless. He's been homeless his entire adult life. He knows every homeless person in town. He could tell you where they're sleeping, what they're doing. He could tell you about what the police are

doing, what the government's I mean, Logan has been a part of our church forever. He's trusted me. He's trusted that this is a safe space for him to walk in. He doesn't come every week. He's not in Bible studies. Like, but this is a safe space for him. A few weeks ago, he came and said he's got stage four cancer. He he can't get the resources here because he's homeless, no insurance, but OSU can. We got him some money, and now he's calling in to to connect with me to the church. And I'm just thinking to myself like, you know, I don't know how to say it because this is like in complete brokenness and humility. That's the ministry of Jesus. And it's not the ministry of Jesus. Cuz what I'm saying is I don't even know what it looks like. I don't know what the outcome's going to be. I don't even know what this looks like. All I know is

I I was thinking about this a lot this morning. Think about Logan. I think about guys like Mark Blackshere that were a part of our church for 10 plus years who struggled with addiction his entire life, was sober his entire time here at Journey, went to Las Vegas to get a job and relapsed and died out in the desert. And I think about guys like him. Nobody had a funeral for him. But in my heart, like he was a part of this church. I know he was saved. Like I I know that God cares about the people that no one else sees. That's my point, I guess, what I'm trying to say. God cares about those and no one else sees. And he knows exactly what's happening. And I love that we get to do some of this messy stuff as I share with you what our kids pray here at Journey Church. I pray that my daddy will stop drinking the drunky drinks.

Yeah. I pray that my dad doesn't end up back in jail. Yeah. I I pray And that's real messy ministry. That is like real. Yeah. And I I'm not saying we're better than I want revival in every church. And I know that the church is the church, the b the bride of Christ, the body of Christ and doing things uniquely. Each church is doing things uniquely that we're not doing. So I praise God for that and I celebrate that. But I also can celebrate what God is doing here and that we're making disciples here. And I told you those kids that are praying those prayers, that's the next generation of leaders. Yes. We're not talking like in the next year or two. We're talking we're going to invest in them that in 10 years, 15 years, they're the ones leading what they're they're participating in now. Yes. They're the future leaders.

I mean, I I read a verse to you, Kara, that I think I'm going to preach this weekend that like, oh, Lord have mercy. Great. This is not the easy stuff. You don't you don't find this at Hobby Lobby on a sign. M but this is Jesus words. He says, "You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God." That's hard. Yeah, I've never seen that one at Hobby Lobby. For what is exalted among men is an abomination in the sight of God. That's not something we just throw up on a t-shirt and sell for $15.

No. Because what do you do with that? We have to meditate on this and invite the Holy Spirit for revealing and a revelation of the truth of the word of God. We have to look at the full context. So when I talk about preaching it, I'm going to preach it in context. So what's the context of that? Well, the context is the parable of the dishonest manager, the the shrewd manager. It's a very confusing parable. Um, it's it's unlike all the other parables where it's just kind of black and white, God, you know, and then two obedient or disobedient. It's not like that. It's there's an owner who fires a worker and the worker has been doing this so long he can't do any other career. He doesn't know what he's going to do. He's too old to go do manual labor. So he takes his boss's

clients and tries to be good with them, hoping that maybe he can get in with them that if he needs something later, he can get something from them. So in his shrewdness to go make it with those ones, the boss sees his shrewdness and says, "Ah, that was interesting." And hires him back. Yeah. And Jesus just kind of leaves this lingering. It's like uh leaves us lingering. But then he he makes a statement and says, "For the sons of this world, the these are the ungodly, the those who are not believers, they're more shrewd in dealing with their own generation than the sons of light." So king two kingdoms, kingdom of darkness, kingdom of light. He says the kingdom of darkness is more shrewd dealing with money than the kingdom of light is dealing shrewdly with the kingdom of light. M

that this is the point of the parable is just watch how the world who are evil deals with money. They're making billions of dollars. Yeah. They're willing to work hard and hustle and then you watch the church who shows up a couple times a month who quickly criticizes the pastors or you you just you watch what they do with that. They they they want more studies to grow more. They and I'm being a little facicious and hyperbole that that's how teachers teach. So let me just clarify in the podcast, you know, I'm not saying every person is this. But what I am saying is Jesus is making a point in this parable that what we celebrate is not always celebrated by God. Yeah.

Bigger is not always better in the kingdom of God. I get this. I've gotten this a lot the last six years. Oh, people have left your your church. There's something wrong. There's something wrong. Actually, the kingdom economics of God is many people left Jesus. Yeah. Go study John chapter 6. Right. They loved it when they got the food. They loved the miracles. But when the hard teaching comes, it's hard. Yeah. You know, Jesus talks about in John 15, you want fruit, there's got to be a pruning. And if it doesn't have fruit on it, I This is Jesus teaching, not mine. The gardener comes and prunes it. And I have been grateful. I've It was really hard, you know. I think it started for us four years ago when people like criticized us

for some theology and stuff and they split and that was one of the first splits we kind of had here and I was like, "Oh, this is so hard, Kara." And then over the last few years as we've pressed in and we've gotten it, it's gotten easier because I'm like, "Oh, this is physical. This is right here. This is like it's it's right here in God's word. You are those who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your heart. I would just say that's one of the challenges and hardest part that cancel culture we're talking about. People just they justify themselves and they they will use scripture to justify themselves. They will use spirituality justify themselves. They will use some way. But it's like, man, go into your prayer closet. Why why do you got to make a noise, a brand? Why do you got to let other people know? Like when people leave this church, I I've told you recently when someone stops giving two years ago, they stay in your church and

then they leave and they take people with them. It's like there was an agenda to begin with. You weren't committed here. Yeah. So, it's no wonder you left. You don't leave something you're committed to. You don't leave something you're invested in. But if you're not giving financially, then at the end of the day, you're you got one foot out the door to begin with. And then you take the other foot with you and you tell the other people like, "Hey, you know, you you should go too. There there's some toxicity there. There problems there." It's like, well, there there is a problem and it's not just the church. We do have problems. So, what would then the the you know, after going studying that parable just quickly, okay, I for all of us listening, I digressed from where we were. So, well, well, my question is just like what let's flip that. What is the what would be the from you the pastor? What would be the encouragement to the church?

My God. I'll tell you, Kara, I'm so grateful for the Lord because yesterday's sermon was birthed out of a verse that we heard a few years ago that just challenged me and changed my life. Matthew 11:12, which has always been in the Bible, but it just never stood out to me. For a lot of people, it's confusing. And Jesus says, "Since the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom has suffered violence, and the violent take it by force." And that was that was to me the the meat of the message. Yeah. Was listen, we don't shrink back. We don't sit back. We don't quit. We don't give up when bad things happen. We go take it by force. Now, I wrestled with this and I studied it and I had a lot of great examples, Old Testament and New Testament, of people that press in and

push forward when difficult days come. I gave some examples yesterday. Daniel in the lion's den, you know, or or not even in the lion's den, that wasn't even the context, but that's a good one, too. But Daniel praying for 21 days. Um, uh Elisha praying for seven days. You got a lot of examples like that. You know, I could I could have given probably hundreds of examples. Uh, I didn't give this one, but like I just think about Hannah praying. Yeah. And even being misunderstood. Yeah. You know, she's weeping and the violent the kingdom suffer violence. She's accosted and accused of being drunk. She didn't stop. She petitioned said, "I'm not drunk." Yeah. I I just want a child and I'll I'll honor God and give back this child. And you know, I did give the example of the woman with the issue of blood for 12 years. But there's tons of examples. I mean, the centurion, Jesus, just say the word. And you know, over and over, we've

got examples of those who have taken it by force. And I was ready to preach that. And then this same person that gave me that incredible prophetic word of God doesn't move quickly, he moves suddenly. He I I I have never in my life I I don't even think that one's an exaggeration. I mean, I told you this day, like I could probably count on my on one hand how many times in my life I've preached a sermon and I am so confident, like purely completely confident God wants me to preach this word at this time to these people. I mean, I'm always feeling like God has us in a book of the Bible for a reason, a season of of whatever he's teaching us. I've always felt confident in that. I've never like been like, "What are you doing, Lord?" I mean, it's God is amazing. He is. Can we

just thank the Lord that God is real? The Holy Spirit speaks. His word is alive. I've always believed that. But this weekend was different. I was studying that word and then I get a text message. I can't remember. Was it th it was Thursday. I got a text Friday. No, it was Thursday cuz I I I came to um pursuit night telling people I was just like I have been rocked today. I was just like ah like I don't know what's happening to me. This is so weird. It was Thursday. You didn't come to pursuit night that night, but I came and I was just kind of like telling everybody I came in touch with like, "Oh, God is real." And they're like, "Yeah, you're a pastor. We We know that." I'm like, "No, no, no. He's really real." You believe that? So, I get a text message from this new friend into my life who's uh older and more mature in the faith.

He doesn't know me. The only person that knew what I was studying was you. Yeah. And the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. That's it. Right. God knew. You knew. I didn't tell anyone. No one on staff. We didn't study this week. We typically do, but we were in DC all week. I didn't tell anyone. He texts me this long text and he says, "Praying for you for Sunday." And he doesn't know what I'm preaching. He says, "Take a reook." Which that word, anytime you have a word that starts with re, it's always got God in it. You know, he is the God of re restoration, redemption. I mean, over and over, you know, we just That's a good word. it it's it's and he says relook at this passage Matthew 11:12 and then he quotes it like this what I'm preaching on I'm like why would he tell me to relook

at this yeah wow and then he continues and says and if you continue to read in the same sermon in the same chapter a few verses later Jesus says come to me y you are a heavy laden burden and I will give you rest so the kingdom that takes it by force is not hard. It's not a burden. It's not meant to be on our strength. Jesus says his burden is light and easy. So, taking it by force should be light and easy. And then there was a lot of teachings about oil and what oil does. It it releases friction, you know, and a lot of times I think even the conversation we're having, it's friction in marriage. It's friction in the church. If the Holy

Spirit's in it, the oil, there's not friction. It's like, can I understand you? Yeah. Amen. Could you understand me? C Can we go to God's word? Yeah. Can we release and repent of any offenses? Can Can we Can we take God at his word? Like when the oil's in it, and I'm referring to the Holy Spirit, but the Holy Spirit throughout scripture has a picture of oil. Yeah. So, he's he's describing this in a text. And now I've prepared one sermon that's done. It's written. And then he adds a whole layer of I I don't dare to say complexity because it's not complexity, but this is why it's wrecked me that the kingdom is not hard. But it is a difficult message. You do have to now do what we talked about earlier. Be obedient and do it. Yes.

So now you've got a choice. Will I take it by force and learn from Jesus? So I'm going to yoke with Jesus. I'm going to do it with Jesus. I'm not going to do this alone. I'm not going to try to get central organ to be saved alone. I'm not going to try to just convince our church to be disciples alone. I'm going to learn from I'm not even going to invite Jesus into it. I'm going to learn from Jesus. Yeah. So, that happened to me on Thursday. Friday just all day wrecked me. You know, Saturday, I'm just kind of confused like, "Okay, Lord, this is your message." You know, I changed my title of my sermon from by force to come to me. Same sermon, completely different principles is yes, you take it by force, but do it with Jesus. So, that was a long answer to your question.

Yeah. How how do you do this? Yeah. Well, we must emphatically learn from Jesus. This is why this book's got to be a higher priority than any other voice we hear. Even our own voice. We have to get into God's word. And God's word's got to go from here. Yeah. To to to the conviction of of inside here, our bowels. You know, we often think of our heart, but in the Old Testament scriptures, the Hebrew, your heart is what moves you. It's it's it's what it's enough to say, I I've got to go do something with this. Totally. And that's when we radically come alive. Yeah. That's where revival happens. Revival happens. There's the re

I mean over and over that that everything changes. Yeah. So I I I think we're on that journey, you and me, and those around us get to experience that journey, too. It's hard when you are experiencing revelation and someone else isn't because you just kind of want to shake people or you want to give them what you got. Yeah. But if if it's not caught, you can't teach it. You know, this is it's got to be caught. I mean, over and over, God's word is all about revelation. I mean, the last book of the Bible, you know, is the apocalypse, which means the revealing. It's the revelation. Without revelation, Yeah. It's it's knowledge. And knowledge isn't what's going to change the world. Yeah. Jesus is. Amen. And he's a living God. Yes. Through the power of the person of the Holy Spirit.

It's So, I don't know if that answered your question. Yeah, a little bit. it I I I I think it's it's a journey for me. Uh studying the kingdom come has uh revolutionized uh my understanding of the way of Jesus. Uh I said it yesterday in the sermon that I don't know why we don't talk more about it. The kingdom that is like even the word kingdom because Jesus he preached it. It's the first sermon he preached. It's the message John the Baptist preached. We don't have a lot of recorded teachings of John the Baptist but we do have this one. Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. So John the Baptist preached it. Jesus preached it. Then he wo it into all these parables. The kingdom of heaven is like the kingdom of God is like he wo it into the parables. Yeah. He said it to Pilate. He hardly said anything in the crucifixion journey. He said nothing to Herod. But to Pilate, he

answers the role of being a king. He says, "My kingdom is not of this world." So he he's referencing the kingdom. Yeah. And then I don't think I ever even like this is where my mind was blown. I don't know if it hit anybody else. After the resurrection, Acts 13, you know how many times I've quoted Acts 18? Yeah. Jesus said, "You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes upon you to be my witnesses in Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and to the end of the earth." Acts 13 says after he had suffered these things, he had shown himself alive to uh you know uh many over 40 days. Yeah. speaking to them about the kingdom. Kingdom. So I'm like, why are we not talking more about the kingdom? Yeah. Even that word kingdom, I mean, it's it's it's got to be emphasized. Yeah. This is disciplehip. This is the church.

This is the way of God is the kingdom of God. It's how we I mean, the scripture comes to mind. It's how we live in the world, but not of the world. Like, it's how we It's how we're to live. Like kingdom just is So if it's not of the world, we're still in the world. Yeah. So, we put it into practice. Not someday or when we're in glory, but right now while we're here. Yeah. Absolutely. And this is the war. It is counter. It is counter culture. Hey, it's counter flesh. It's counter everything we know. Yes. What you've been raised, what you want to do. But man, is it better? I just It's It is a better way. It's a higher way. It's a greater way. It's a You get as I you know, I think we heard epiphany. I think it was earlier this year. It might have been last year. Maybe it was last year when pastor Brandon preached about right uh believing uh creates uh thinking right

right thinking creates right living right living yeah so that's it right thinking creates right living and the emphasis of that message was Romans 14:17 which is the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating drinking but of righteousness peace and joy in the Holy Spirit and his emphasis was not the not eating and drinking but just the righteousness joy and peace in the Holy Spirit well I just remember getting kind this epiphany like, "Oh, that's really simple but really profound." Yeah. If the church was operating in the kingdom, we'd have people that are operating in righteousness, peace, and joy. That's an attractive church. Yeah. Amen. I mean, that's like who I mean, even those who don't know Jesus would be like, "Oh, why do you have so much peace? Why do you have so much joy?" Because I'm righteous. It just hits me. But instead, I think we're still focusing on the eating and drinking. Yeah. Oh, that's a word.

You know, tell me what you got for my kids. Tell me what you got for my husband. Tell me what you got for couples. Hey, what do you got for young adults? What do you got for It's like that's not kingdom. Yeah, that's hard thinking. Yeah, I've been a part of this being a pastor thing for 30 years. That's not what we see in the Western church. The western church is the cheesecake factory of ministry. Uh if you want Italian, we got Italian. You want American, we got American. Okay. So then how do you then then how do you lead uh as to not throw the baby out with bath water, right? We talked about this yesterday or was it today? I don't know. Someone keep going a famous pastor who Oh yeah. had led his church about the same length where we are. Yeah.

And his church was about the size ours is. He grew this mega church. He was starting to get a little bit of fame and notoriety. And he just quit. Yeah. He couldn't he couldn't handle it. Well, that's our uh understanding of it. And now he's speaking at conferences, writing books, and doing all this Christian ministry online, but not leading a local church in the context of what we understand local church to be. And you know, we've talked about him for the last I don't whenever 16 years, but Kara, well, he if I remember correctly, because this is when we were first married, and we we lived in the same area as he did, and I was really a baby believer and I still love him. Yeah. I think that he he spoke hard truths like what you're starting to really like like speak into

the church that he did that for years and maybe it took his toll on him. Yeah. Because it's both attractive. People they want it, they're drawn to it, but then at the same time they don't do it and there's a contradiction that as a preacher Yeah. It it starts to wear in your soul. Yeah. You know, I mean, it really does. And this is what I just read out of Luke 16 that it is really challenging because like excuse me uh when you realize what we celebrate mega church. Yeah. Uh sexy ministry. I I'll confession. It's hard when people tell me that was the best sermon you've ever they've ever heard of me.

Because I'm like, "Oh, this is a performance." Well, don't you think you could spin that though and and and understand their heart behind it? I do understand their heart. I was challenged in a way that I've never been challenged before. Absolutely. But do you see my side of it too? Because now I've got to get up on the platform this Sunday and I've got to stand behind the pulpit this Sunday and I've got to say something better than the previous Sunday. Despite because I I get the heart. I've ne I don't look people in the eyes and say, you know, what do you think? This is a poor This is confessions of a pastor. So, this is my free counseling session just to acknowledge the um the subconscious psychology behind what we've made church. Pastor, I got to tell you that was the best sermon you've ever preached. You know, like literally I was in the kitchen yesterday in between services and someone said that that was the best sermon you've ever preached. Someone else said, "Yeah, it wasn't the best,

but it was up there." Oh my goodness. I'm not even kidding you. This is h in front of me. It's because we live in America. Yeah. I'm like, okay. You know, like I literally Thanks, guys. You know, smiling, but you leave. It's like it doesn't edif. So, talking about this pastor that gave up his large mega church to go do do ministry versus lead a church. It is a place where it it's perseverance. Yeah. And endurance. It's something that like I don't even want to do, but you get fruit in doing. I'm not saying he's wrong or right in doing what he did. He's still a phenomenal communicator. Um God's gifted him in that way, but it is hard uh in the world that we live in when people have an expectation of pastors, churches. Yeah.

They Let's just get real. People have an expectation. I I had several people I had one couple, the one with the dog uh come up to me and you know, hey, we came to church on Christmas. We came on Easter. we loved both and we came again today and we love it. We're going to be committed here and and they're clearly they're Christians and they're just like we like your Bible teaching because you teach straight from the Bible and it's like they're they're noble things to say, but I don't it's it's hard because it's like I want to know if people are liking the sermon. I I want to know these things, but what really matters is now what do you do with it? Yeah. Now go love people at your work, your neighborhood, at the gas station, in the grocery store.

Now I need your money to display what's happening. I'm not just talking about giving to the church. I'm talking about now go love see the homeless person on the street as a person. Now I need you to be moved to go into the prisons. Help us reach the nations with the God now. Like so that's like for me the fruit that's when we know the spirit's on this is when people go from just oh yeah that's good message. Yeah this kingdom this good message you know it's like okay okay what do we do now? Yeah. And when we do hear marriages saved and when we do hear kids praying for their parents, when we do start to see the fruit of that, and we are seeing the fruit of it, by the way, a testimony yesterday of a mom who's

been praying for a daughter for years who was living a lesbian lifestyle, abandoned the faith, quit going to church, started believing an identity of of who she is. Yeah. who in the last few months radically changed her life, confessed that she's leaving this lifestyle of LGBTQ, came back to the church, started getting connected back in the church, and she was in church yesterday with her mom on Mother's Day. Yeah. Like that is what I liked to see. That's the fruit of And that's experiencing the kingdom. Oh my good. And it's not even done. No, the story. Yeah, it is. It's messy. Kara, and the ministry of Jesus, I will say this was really messy. Emphatically, it it it was really messy.

And when he calls us now to go make disciples of all the nations, it will be messy. Yeah. Wherever you go, whether it's Israel or whether it's in these other Middle Eastern countries like Iran, which the church is growing in Iran, you know, that the world's not talking about. When you start to look at what God's doing in Africa or China, the Chinese church is far bigger than the American church. You know, when we start to look, it is messy. Yeah. And I think those churches under persecution have a a deeper purity than the American church has for sure. And we are in the mess of it right now. Just like Jesus came in history at a time that it was messy. They looked for a Messiah that looked like this. It was messy cuz it looked like that. You know, they were expecting it to be like this, but it was messy because it looked like that. Even his teachings, I mean, the whole

stories of the lost that we looked at a few weeks ago, they're messy. Very, you know, the shepherd that leaves the sheep, the woman that looks for the coin, the father that loves his sons and deeply desires them both to have a seat at celebration. Y enjoying good food, dancing. I mean, what a God. Uh but it it's it's it's it's a good journey which leads us to today. So we had marriage conference, we had Montel Jordan, we had a hard teaching yesterday on the kingdom of God, the violent take it by force, but you do it with Jesus. Yeah. You don't do it apart from Jesus. Which brings us to what's next at Journey Church. This year we've got great events coming. We've got Smith House worship coming. I mean, we've got Kingdom Conference, which I'm just blown away. I mean, God's connecting us with people that

I never thought he'd connect with us. We got Martin Smith connecting, wanting to come to our church again. We got some wonderful speakers coming. All these things are happening. Kara, what are you excited about what God's doing in our lives right now in Journey Church. And what does that look like for you? You've asked me the question as a pastor, you know, how do we do this? What does that look like to to, you know, to not give into these things? How do we lead people in these areas? What are you excited about right now? What do you kind of see in the state of the church? That's a good but a hard question. Okay. Um I think I don't even know the the season we're in is I think a season of a little bit of pruning, I guess, like what you said, a little bit of shaking.

Yeah. Um, and that's okay, you know, like that's he's got he's a he's a good father and he's a good gardener. Yeah. And I trust him. Um, but I guess I guess I could say what I'm excited for is cuz we've we've been through it many times and the fruit that comes on the other side of a pruning. Yeah. As much as like this isn't my words. This is the Lord, you know, like fruit, healthy fruit comes Yeah. when something's pruned. For example, we pruned we pruned some rose bushes last um fall. We had no idea what we were doing. We are not the master gardener, but we're sitting here like watching YouTube videos. I think we talked about it on this podcast last fall season. Did we kill this thing? But it was it's two of them and right now they are growing like it's beautiful. They're baby. They're baby like, you know, leaves and baby fruit.

But it's you can tell but it's you can tell it's going to be healthy. It's it's it's going to be very fruitful. Yes. Because what was happening this this is just an analogy, right? What was happening last summer, I'll never forget, is we did not prune the rose tree or the rose bush back for a few years. What happened was it grew so big and so fast the entire thing toppled over and we like tried to tie it up with like a string and I was so frustrated. Meaning me you you said take care of this and I know I'm like I didn't know what I was doing because the whole thing literally fell over and we were about to have people over. It actually was it was our daughter's wedding. It was like her bridal shower and it was going to be in the backyard. I'm like this whole rose bush is falling over. M. So, we tied it and then at the end I'm just like, we're not taking care of this thing, right? Yeah. It's big, but it's lumpy and it's heavy and it's falling

over. So, it had tons of roses on it. Tons. But the roses were making it fall. Yeah. It was like, what do I do with this thing? So, we cut the thing back and it's growing a new and a fresh and it's going to be a beautiful new harvest. Um, but but a few weeks ago, I thought you were just like, "Ah, I think we killed it." Yeah, I did. I think we killed all of these. It's true. And I was telling you, just be patient. Be patient. Be pat cuz there was a little bit of sign of life. The story of our life. Be patient. Be patient. It's coming. I'm always like sees the glass half empty. You see it has powerful. Praise the Lord. We're we're in this together. Um but I would say that's like that to me is just a picture of I think what God's doing in this ministry right now. Hallelujah. And um that's okay. You know, it's it's um you know, it's um it's good. It's healthy and it's good.

It's so good. And you know, in the midst of the journey, like sometimes you see what's been pruned, but man, if you just take your eyes off of that and look at what you have. Even just yesterday was we just got some cool people that are that are part of this body, that are part of this family that I just I I thank God for. Yeah. You know, people who aren't crying for attention, people who aren't I mean, they're they're serving behind the scenes. They're sacrificing financially. I mean, just cool people. I mean, I had one this morning just shoot me a text saying he's praying for me today, you know, and it's like just to have a brother that the only agenda is I just I want you to know another great message and I'm praying for you. It's like just cool people. I mean, we had a guy make you soup cuz you weren't feeling well. Yeah.

Cool people. I mean, it's like this is so even though there there is that tension like you're saying of like, okay, if something gets pruned, it's like, hey, it could sting, but don't get your eyes off of what we have too, you know, in the good way. It's like this is good, you know, and there's there's so much good to be said there. And as I shared with you already, Jesus talks about you, you go live out the kingdom. You preach the gospel, heal the sick. Yeah. Cast out demons. And if someone doesn't welcome you, don't stay. Yeah. You know, you move on. Shake off the dust. Yeah. You know, go go where you're received. And I would just say that's the place we are right now is is we're just going to bring forth the kingdom. And if you don't want the kingdom, that's okay. We're going to we're going to offer it to those that want it.

And if you want it, here we go. Central Oregon shall be saved. Yes. In Jesus name. Central Oregon shall be saved. Amen. I'm grateful for it. So, you're looking forward to the beauty that's coming out of the pruning season. Yeah. Amen. Well, I want to join you in that journey of celebration and I'm grateful. I'm excited. Real excited. uh just the shift that's happening in understanding the kingdom because if we take what we've talked about today and put into practice, we don't have to try so hard. We just have to learn from Jesus. And all the striving we've done in the past is is it's not in vain, but that's not what builds a church. Yeah. Jesus builds his church. Absolutely.

And so it's really a beautiful thing to say no matter what happens. Yes. you know, with uh the government releasing UFO files. Well, we don't have to freak out. Jesus is building his church. Yeah. You know, gas prices going up and the world's wondering what what there's wars. There's rumors of wars. We don't have to freak out. Yeah. Go read Matthew 24. Yeah. You know, go read the end of Luke, you know, when Jesus says, "Actually, just look up and declare our redemption is near." Yes. We're getting closer to Christ coming. And so, uh, with that said, I'm excited. Jesus is coming. Uh let's be ready. Uh let's uh go expand the kingdom. Yes. By force. And when I say by force, with the grace that Jesus gives us uh to do what he does, to love what he loves, to serve as he serves.

And we can't do any of these things without the Holy Spirit, right? So it's like the oil you talk about like I think we need to continue to just pray that the Holy Spirit just leads and guides and fills and heals and all the things. all the things. Very good. Well, as as we close, I think there's probably this really important question that uh people watching, at least on YouTube, would want to know. Uh what are we drinking? Well, what are you drinking? Well, I ordered at this uh establishment, I won't name it since we weren't paid. Um, I ordered a hot white mocha with coconut with almond milk. And when I got to the window, they handed me this.

I think it might be a cold brew, too. Uh, I don't think it has coconut. I don't think it has white mocha, but it's got almond milk because it says almond at the top. Says 19 almond. So, I don't know what 19 is, but um, so I don't even know what I'm drinking. I ordered a hot white mocha with coconut with a with almond milk instead of regular milk. And this is what I got. How about you? What are you drinking today? Oh, it's a iced green peach green tea. It's actually very good. That's exactly what I think I ordered. Cool. Well, cheers. Cheers. Uh and I want to just pray before we leave today and just I'm praying for revival in every heart that when Jesus comes, there is a great awakening that we're not surprised by his return. We are anticipating with urgency the excitement. So, uh, Lord, today I just thank you for this conversation that we

get to talk about who you are and what you're doing. Your word is active and alive. And I pray that we would take you at your word from Genesis 1 to Revelation 22. That God, your word is good because you are good. So, Holy Spirit, would you give us a revealing of what your word actually means? That Jesus, you are the way, the truth, and the life. And even as we've just shared on this podcast today, I pray that it would be fruitful, honoring to you that there wouldn't be anything we've said today that was dishonoring. If there is, reveal it to us. I want to be a person of repentance that God um I I want to please you. There's more joy in heaven over one that repents than 99 who need none. So we thank you Lord that you receive us in our repentance and we thank you that your kingdom shall come and your will will be done here on earth as it is in heaven. I declare over the region in which we pastor our central Oregon shall be saved. Uh we thank you

God that you love those who are far from you and that God you are calling for such a time as this those uh to the harvest is ripe. And so we pray that you would send forth workers and we pray that we would take you at your word. That we would be shrewd in the kingdom of God. That we'd be wise. Uh we would be ones with understanding and we would go after what you go after. So God, I I I ask for revival. I ask that people would be delivered of demons. I ask that people would be healed of sickness. I ask that people would come to faith in you. That those who never expected to follow you would follow you. So God, this is just the beginning of greater things. Lord, we thank you for this time that we just get to confess the good, the bad, and the ugly. And that God, nothing is wasted with you. It's all for your glory. And we say today, this is done in the mighty name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who came in the flesh, our Lord and Savior, our King of Kings.

Amen. Amen. Hey, God bless you all. Hey, thanks for joining us. We'll see you next time on Confessions of a Pastor. Love you.